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 FOIA Request To The Met, questions re: 7/7
Kier
Posted: Jan 30 2008, 12:19 PM





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QUOTE (Kier @ Jan 29 2008, 02:15 PM)
QUOTE
Dear Ms Martin

Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2007110003009

I write in connection with your request for information which was received by the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS).  I note you seek access to the following information:

    * On 9th December 2005 it was reported that the No.30 bus which exploded in Tavistock Square on the morning on 7th July 2005 had been taken to a \'secret\' depot in Cambridgeshire. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article192595.ece Could you please provide the following information: 1. Was this report correct, and if so, is the bus still in the same location? 2. If the bus is not in the same location, or if the report was not correct, is information available to the public regarding where the bus is now? .


Following receipt of your request searches were conducted within the MPS to locate information relevant to your request.

EXTENT OF SEARCHES TO LOCATE INFORMATION

To locate the information relevant to your request searches were conducted at Metropolitan Police Counter Terrorism Command and the Directorate of Public Affairs.

RESULT OF SEARCHES

Following the forensic examination and police enquiries relating to the no. 30 bus destroyed at Tavistock Square on 7th July 2005 the vehicle was returned to its owner, Stagecoach. For information relating to the bus since it was returned please contact Stagecoach.

DECISION

I have today decided that you have requested information relating to another company. I have provided you with the web address of Stagecoach below:

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/index.html


COMPLAINT RIGHTS

Your attention is drawn to the attached sheet which details your right of complaint.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your interest in the MPS.

Should you have any further inquiries concerning this matter, please write or contact Julie Harknett on telephone number 0207 230 2175 quoting the reference number above.

Yours sincerely




Julie Harknett
Information Manager


There is no option that I can see on the Stagecoach site for contacting them regionally in London, although there appear to be contact details for every other city and region. I've written to UK Bus customer services and will post the response here when I get it.

QUOTE
Many thanks for your email regarding the No.30 bus, which was affected by one of the 7/7 bombings in 2005. As stated to the media at the time, the bus was severely damaged in the explosion and, following the completion of the Metropolitan Police investigation and examination of the bus, the vehicle was sensitively disposed of. Best regards

Steven Stewart
Director of Corporate Communications
Stagecoach Group
10 Dunkeld Road
Perth
PH1 5TW
Phone: 01738 642040
Fax: 01738 443076
Mobile: 07764 774680
e-mail: steven.stewart@stagecoachgroup.com
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cmain
Posted: Jan 31 2008, 10:45 PM





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numeral, as you seem to be in Neil Smith's good books, would you mind e-mailing him a "valuable probing question" for me?

Could you ask him the location of the CCTV picture of the 4 men at Kings Cross at 0826 on 7th July 2005, was it at Kings Cross Thameslink station or at Kings Cross mainline station?
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numeral
Posted: Feb 1 2008, 06:13 AM





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QUOTE (cmain @ Jan 31 2008, 10:45 PM)
numeral, as you seem to be in Neil Smith's good books, would you mind e-mailing him a "valuable probing question" for me?

Could you ask him the location of the CCTV picture of the 4 men at Kings Cross at 0826 on 7th July 2005, was it at Kings Cross Thameslink station or at Kings Cross mainline station?

The Home Office narrative states that on 12 July 2005:

"By lunchtime, police working on the theory that there is a King’s Cross link to the 3 train bombs, all being broadly equidistant from there at the time of the explosions, identify a CCTV image of 4 men with rucksacks at King’s Cross.

I request a high quality copy of this CCTV image.

Further, was this CCTV image captured at King's Cross Thameslink station or at King's Cross mainline station or at King's Cross-St. Pancras underground station?
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cmain
Posted: Feb 1 2008, 10:06 PM





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QUOTE (numeral @ Feb 1 2008, 06:13 AM)
QUOTE (cmain @ Jan 31 2008, 10:45 PM)
numeral, as you seem to be in Neil Smith's good books, would you mind e-mailing him a "valuable probing question" for me?

Could you ask him the location of the CCTV picture of the 4 men at Kings Cross at 0826 on 7th July 2005, was it at Kings Cross Thameslink station or at Kings Cross mainline station?

The Home Office narrative states that on 12 July 2005:

"By lunchtime, police working on the theory that there is a King’s Cross link to the 3 train bombs, all being broadly equidistant from there at the time of the explosions, identify a CCTV image of 4 men with rucksacks at King’s Cross.

I request a high quality copy of this CCTV image.

Further, was this CCTV image captured at King's Cross Thameslink station or at King's Cross mainline station or at King's Cross-St. Pancras underground station?

Thanks numeral. If they disallow the request we can ask why Peregrine Worsthorne and Jason Burke have been allowed to see the picture.

At the very least, there is no reason for them to withhold the location even if they withhold the picture.
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numeral
Posted: Feb 6 2008, 07:55 PM





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QUOTE
From: Smith Neil J - SO15
Sent: 06 February 2008 15:37

Cc: Smith Neil J - SO15; Henegan Nick - DPA; Harknett Julie - SO15
Subject: CCTV footage Kings Cross 7th July

Dear Mr XXXXXXX

Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2008020000391

I write in connection with your request for information which was received
by the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS).  I note you seek access to the
following information:

  The Home Office narrative states that on 12 July 2005:
"By lunchtime,
  police working on the theory that there is a Kings Cross link to the 3
  train bombs, all being broadly equidistant from there at the time of the
  explosions, identify a CCTV image of 4 men with rucksacks at Kings
  Cross.
I request a high quality copy of this CCTV image.
Further, was
  this CCTV image captured at King's Cross Thameslink station or at King's
  Cross mainline station or at King's Cross-St. Pancras underground
  station?
.

Mr XXXXXXXX,

Below I have inserted a response I forwarded previously to you (which I
have adjusted slightly) in respect of a similar enquiry. You will see that
the same restrictions on data release applies as before. A Criminal case
linked to the events of the 7th July 2005 is scheduled to commence in April
2008. It is highly likely that the material you refer to in this request
(and in others of your requests) will be addressed during that Court
hearing.

DECISION

Having located and considered the relevant information, I am afraid that I
am not required by statute to release the information requested. This
letter serves as a Refusal Notice under Section 17 of the Freedom of
Information Act 2000 (the Act).

REASONS FOR DECISION

Section 17 of the Act provides:

(1)        A public authority which, in relation to any request for
information, is to any extent relying on a claim that any provision in part
II relating to the duty to confirm or deny is relevant to the request or on
a claim that information is exempt information must, within the time for
complying with section 1(1), give the applicant a notice which-

(a) states the fact,
(B) specifies the exemption in question, and
© states (if that would not otherwise be apparent) why the
                          exemption applies.

Harm

In considering whether or not this information should be disclosed, I have
considered the potential HARM that could be caused by disclosure:

The following areas of Harm are judged directly relevant:

Proper judicial process (long established legal processes exist through
which access to relevant material is achieved  - CPIA, civil discovery,
etc.). FOIA access should not usurp those processes.

Health and Saftey - the health and wellbeing of those directly effected by
the events of the 7th July, either be they the surviving relatives of those
killed, or those who are surviving victims, should not be unnecessarilly
harmed by intermittent introduction of material into the public arena with
good cause.

Section 30: Investigations And Proceedings Conducted By Public
Authorities
Section 38: Predjudice to Health and Safety.

The above exemptions are Qualified, and require a prejudice test.

PUBLIC INTEREST TEST

Considerations Favouring Disclosure

o        Public awareness
In the context of this enquiry, this factor may assist in explaining the
events of that day. That might assist the public to understand more clearly
and accurately what actually occured, and might assist to abate inaccurate
speculation.

Considerations Favouring Non-Disclosure

The following criteria will be applied by the Police Service in favour of
non-disclosure:

o        Investigations
Information relating to an investigation will rarely be disclosed under
FOIA and only where there is a strong public interest consideration
favouring disclosure.  It is the Association of Chief Police Officer's
approach that information relating to an investigation will rarely be
disclosed under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act. Whilst
such information may be released in order to serve a 'core policing
purpose' - i.e. to prevent or detect crime or to protect life or property -
it will only be disclosed following a Freedom of Information request if
there is are strong public interest considerations favouring disclosure. In
the context of this case, relevant information is already released.

o        Existing procedures
It would not be in the public interest for Freedom of Information to be
used to obtain information which is already available under existing
procedures. In the context of this case, this particularly would especially
relate to the established legal routes through which information is
properly accessed. In the context of this case, the information requested
forms part of the evidence required for future Coroner's Court
consideration, and should charges be brought following the police
investigation could form part of that evidential case.

  Health and Safey
In due course the full particulars of the events of the 7th July 2005 will
be presented before the Courts in the prescribed manner. To cause those
events to be intermittently re-lived by those most significantly effected
outside of the essential and proper processes is not the the public
interest. The fact that this CCTV footage exists and its broad nature has
been fully reported. The process of publishing evidence in advance of the
trial without good and compelling beneficial cause adds to the pain
suffered by those surviving victims and relavtives.

Balancing test / Decision

After weighing up the competing interests I have determined that further
CCTV footage should not be released. It would not materially advance public
knowledge, and be unlikely to effect some pre-conceptions regarding the
events of that morning. I judge that the public interest balance has been
properly assessed at this stage in this data release.  Given that the Court
hearing is set for the near future, and that what this applicant requests
is EVIDENCE outside of the presribed and authorised legal process, this
request must be refused. Your additional question asks for the location
from which that evidence was captured. That is implict from previously
reported comments, it too forms part of the evidence and should not be
explained further in this reply. On a  technical point, FOIA is not a
question and answer mechanism. I do however attached a weblink which may
assist you.

http://cms.met.police.uk/news/major_operat...he_7_7_bombings


COMPLAINT RIGHTS

If you are dissatisfied with this response please read the attached paper
entitled Complaint Rights which explains how to make a complaint.

You have now asked a series of requests which are essentially the same,
CCTV footage relating to the events of the 7th July. I have not rejected
your request under section 14  of the Act (repeated requests), albeit a
valid approach for us to adopt. We accept the sincerity of all you
requests, particularly given the importance of the case you refer to, but I
cannot make it any clearer that there will be no further release of
evidence concerning the events of the 7th July in advance the Court
hearings.

Should you have any further inquiries concerning this matter, please
contact me on 0207 230 2717  or by e-mail, quoting the reference number
above.

Yours sincerely




Neil Smith
Detective Inspector
Counter Terrorism Command
New Scotland Yard


* Only if qualified exemption relied upon

                            COMPLAINT RIGHTS


Are you unhappy with how your request has been handled or do you think the
decision is incorrect?

You have the right to require the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) to
review their decision.

Prior to lodging a formal complaint you are welcome and encouraged to
discuss the decision with the case officer that dealt with your request.

Ask to have the decision looked at again -

The quickest and easiest way to have the decision looked at again is to
telephone the case officer that is nominated at the end of your decision
letter.

That person will be able to discuss the decision, explain any issues and
assist with any problems.

Complaint

If you are dissatisfied with the handling procedures or the decision of the
MPS made under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the Act) regarding
access to information you can lodge a complaint with the MPS to have the
decision reviewed.

Complaints should be made in writing and addressed to:

FOI Complaint
Public Access Office
Empress State Building
Empress Approach
Lillie Road
London
SW6 1TR

In all possible circumstances the MPS will aim to respond to your complaint
within three months.

The Information Commissioner

After lodging a complaint with the MPS if you are still dissatisfied with
the decision you may make application to the Information Commissioner for a
decision on whether the request for information has been dealt with in
accordance with the requirements of the Act.

For information on how to make application to the Information Commissioner
please visit their website at www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk.
Alternatively, phone or write to:

Information Commissioner's Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF
Phone:  01625 545 700
Case reference: 2008020000391


This post has been edited by numeral on Feb 6 2008, 08:02 PM
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The Antagonist
Posted: Feb 6 2008, 08:33 PM


Antagonista


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Maybe Neil Smith and Co. need reminding of this:
QUOTE
“I do accept that people want to know exactly what happened, and
we will make sure that they do.... We will bring together all
the evidence that we have and publish it, so that people—the
victims and others— can see exactly what happened..... we will
publish a full account of all the information that we have.”

-- Tony Blair, 14th December 2005
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Bridget
Posted: Feb 6 2008, 08:38 PM





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Joined: 26-November 05



I don't remember seeing these H & S issues used before:
QUOTE
Health and Saftey - the health and wellbeing of those directly effected by
the events of the 7th July, either be they the surviving relatives of those
killed, or those who are surviving victims, should not be unnecessarilly
harmed by intermittent introduction of material into the public arena with
good cause.

  Health and Safey
In due course the full particulars of the events of the 7th July 2005 will
be presented before the Courts in the prescribed manner. To cause those
events to be intermittently re-lived by those most significantly effected
outside of the essential and proper processes is not the the public
interest. The fact that this CCTV footage exists and its broad nature has
been fully reported. The process of publishing evidence in advance of the
trial without good and compelling beneficial cause adds to the pain
suffered by those surviving victims and relavtives.

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