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 Scandal! Gender stereotyping in the Trigun anime, feminists could go up the wall *g
 
Did you notice this too?
Or course! finally s.o. wrote about it! [ 2 ]  [66.67%]
Now that you mention it... [ 1 ]  [33.33%]
I've never been aware of this [ 0 ]  [0.00%]
This doesn't interest me at all [ 0 ]  [0.00%]
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Chilly
Posted on Feb 26 2006, 02:45 AM


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I like episode 15 and the fight between Dominique and Vash.

But there was a little little line that made me go ":huh:"

This is after Vash defeated Dominique.
First, there is Vash with an usual statement:
user posted image

but then:
user posted image

Now, is that really Vash saying that? *1)

Dominique the GHG, high-skilled assassin, as a cleaning lady?
Maybe that thought made Dominique even feel a little more vexed.
user posted image

Still no need to jump off walls*2)
user posted image

user posted image

Well, this line is just showing the gender stereotype-thinking of at least the one who put that line in Vash's mouth.
Furthermore, that has been a moment where I was reminded that Vash is a fictional character after all.

*1) note: Vash adds "Just kidding", but that referes more to the last sentence "Like mine, for example."
*2) note: Those lines are anime-only, they aren't in the manga at all!


ps: This will be my last topic for quite some time I guess. since holidays are over.
Well so long!
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carmen
Posted on Feb 26 2006, 09:41 PM


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XDDD your comments are so funny, but interesting to the same time. Yeah, I didn't notice that... angry.gif Come on, Vash! She's more than a pretty babe!


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bink1227
Posted on Feb 27 2006, 01:13 AM


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somebody else has also given this thought.

http://www.alltrees.org/anime/flamingsword/index.shtml

under "culture," there's an interesting dialogue about gendered violence in the anime.
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carmen
Posted on Feb 27 2006, 03:11 AM


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Hey! I've never seen that page before....Looks so good. blink.gif


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Chilly
Posted on Feb 27 2006, 03:32 PM


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bink1227, thank you so much for this link! smile.gif
(That's why I love forums.)

So someone did publish this before, actually I'm glad about that!
Emily has some other interesting essays there.

Nonetheless, here is the topic with matching pictures and some hopefully witty comments! tongue.gif
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bink1227
Posted on Feb 27 2006, 09:44 PM


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smile.gif i'm glad it's on a discussion board. topics are good smile.gif



re the link: i don't really think author is correct in her assumption that vash didn't try to convert the male assassins. I mean, he didn't really extend any kind of choice to monev, but he also seemed closest to killing monev than anyone else in the anime or manga. i think that every time he is caught in battle with an opponent, his presence represents a choice. wolfwood and livio are the only two that are smart enough to make the decision, but that doesn't mean it wasn't extended to everyone. also, there are also times in the anime that meryl backs vash in the anime (ie the episode with bostalk and his daughter, with marianne, on the sand steamer, etc etc). but for the most part, she does make some very interesting points.

i don't know. i'm kind of interested in the entirety of the gunsmoke society. there is obviously routine violence against women and children via the slave trade. and it would be interesting to evaluate this within the context of nightow's views of society: is this a reflection on japanese culture, or is this a synthesis of what he feels american western culture is like?

there's another gag-worthy line that is in the manga AND the anime. when vash is in the bar with monica and he's surrounded by the women and says something like "mercenaries in aprons...wouldn't want children to see this." of course, the male population that is trying to blow him up...that's ok. but...the males were completely inept at capturing him...maybe he was trying to talk his way out of a sticky situation by appealing to a level he knew would resonate within the women.

of course, vash is also the most likely character to cross gender lines (elandira pretty much sticks to one gender: female). he fights like a demon, then he cries like a baby. he chases skirts, but never does anything with anybody. it's a huge contradiction. if this is a society where gender lines are firmly intrenched, then vash's existence would be an anomaly in more ways than one. he's a male member of a species that seems to be almost completely comprised of females, and he slips from hormonal teenage girl to cold fighting machine in the blink of an eye.
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carmen
Posted on Feb 28 2006, 04:46 AM


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QUOTE (bink1227 @ Feb 27 2006, 09:44 PM)


of course, vash is also the most likely character to cross gender lines (elandira pretty much sticks to one gender: female). he fights like a demon, then he cries like a baby. he chases skirts, but never does anything with anybody. it's a huge contradiction. if this is a society where gender lines are firmly intrenched, then vash's existence would be an anomaly in more ways than one. he's a male member of a species that seems to be almost completely comprised of females, and he slips from hormonal teenage girl to cold fighting machine in the blink of an eye.

XD Harsh words! tongue.gif I think that Vash romantic relationship with women are difficult, because of his scars...and his attachment with Rem. She's a sort of shadow , in this context (an angel sometimes), but also Meryl must fight with her memory. wink.gif


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bink1227
Posted on Feb 28 2006, 11:58 AM


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you think it's harsh? unsure.gif i heart vash's character. he's just...weird. like bipolar or something.
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Chilly
Posted on Feb 28 2006, 01:06 PM


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@bink: I agree with you, Vash always offered a choice. In the anime it doesn't come out right, and yes, he's more sensitive to Dominique and Zazie in that case. But in the manga he tries desperately to save Leonof/Emilio and also to convince RaiDei to lead a "normal life".

QUOTE (bink1227 @ Feb 27 2006, 08:44 PM)

i don't know.  i'm kind of interested in the entirety of the gunsmoke society.  there is obviously routine violence against women and children via the slave trade.  and it would be interesting to evaluate this within the context of nightow's views of society: is this a reflection on japanese culture, or is this a synthesis of what he feels american western culture is like?

I think the latter.
But I guess there are still japanese culture-influences or so there. At least about the gender-roles in the anime, as reported. (But I'm suspecting the script writer here)


But I don't think Vash crosses gender lines. Maybe he's somewhere in between some times. But emotional men do exist, and Vash is imo just very, very emotional. =)
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bink1227
Posted on Feb 28 2006, 06:40 PM


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sure, emotional men do exist, but i think most people would react to them like they're pansies. it's not "normal" for a guy to start crying over absolutely nothing. of course, later in the manga, you realize that vash is under so much pressure that he doesn't even know how to react to things normally anymore...which is really depressing when you think about it. but...then again...if you're hunting for a fearsome outlaw, the last person you'll suspect is the guy crying over spilt donuts. it worked on meryl.

anyway, just for the sake of argument, i'm going to define my terms, so we know what i'm talking about.

gender role: Attitudes, patterns of behavior, and personality attributes defined by the culture in which the person lives as stereotypically "masculine" or "feminine" social roles.

it's easy to cross gender lines. i mean, in america, girls reading comic books...that's crossing gender lines. i don't mean that vash is more likely to get busy with wolfwood (vxm all the way, yo). i'm just saying he's got a lot of traits that are culturally coded as "feminine."

while i'm analyzing characters, let's go for meryl. she does a lot of things that are usually deemed "masculine." in the beginning, she can't say she's sorry, she doesn't ask for directions, and she's got a really hard time being emotionally open with others. forget about comforting people. she can't do that at all. she also has an incredibly high risk and dangerous job. these are all things, in this society at least, that are related to "masculinity." karen even tells her, "you can't be happy living with danger all the time." meryl doesn't act the way normal office ladies act.

"feminine" and "masculine:" i'm not saying these characters are "wrong" or anything because they don't fit a gender stereotype. i just think that it's interesting that while there is a lot of gender stereotyping going on in trigun, there are other areas where the gender lines are crossed and the results are interesting and complex characters.

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Chilly
Posted on Feb 28 2006, 10:25 PM


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You're right, they would treat them like pansies.

Now the bit more difficult part:
it's not "normal" for a guy to start crying over absolutely nothing. - imo that wouldn't be normal for a girl too. Maybe Vash 'just' doesn't react normal.
(normal - like the avarage norm does)
(Actually I think the crying the whole time in the earlier episodes were more for entertainment-purposes, from Vash for the guys there and for us too)

If reading comics does mean to cross gender lines, then it's in fact very easy to cross the lines. (I thought that this had become quite normal for girls too? However,)
I rather thought of being a midwife for men or working in the marines for women when it comes to cross gender lines. That's why I thought/think he doesn't cross them. I mean he cooks in eps10 like Wolfwood does before him, and I didn't found that out of the norm/masculine gender role. Okay maybe a bit the apron with the smilie on it... but he had something to wear, didn't he? =D

Yes Meryl is kinda strange, she does these dangerous jobs and is quite hard-headed, yet she speaks and dresses in the most feminine way.
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bink1227
Posted on Feb 28 2006, 11:28 PM


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i think for the most part that gender identity (in america, at least) is a lot more fluid than it used to be. a lot of people probably don't even think about it, but being a tomboy is eschewing one set of gender norms (dolls, dresses, tea time with stuffed animals) and adopting another (running, jumping, climbing trees).

of course, if everybody agreed on and played within rigid gender roles, then we'd all be gender stereotypes, and that would be no fun. gender is one of those really nebulous cultural constructs that gets blurrier the harder you look at it.
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