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 Benjamin Lafayette Sisko
Vorus
Posted: Mar 6 2011, 03:58 AM


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Herein will be contained, at an undetermined time in the future, the list of crimes for which Former Captain Sisko should be charged. Suffice it to say that I will conclusively prove him to be one of the most heinous officers Starfleet has ever produced, and guilty of enough crimes to warrant a permanent prison sentence.
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Martok
Posted: Mar 6 2011, 04:54 AM


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ohmy.gif


I can't wait for this to be completed and to show a LOT of people how awful of a captain he was.
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Vorus
Posted: Mar 6 2011, 11:17 PM


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Okay, let's start with the obvious ones:


1) "Way of the Warrior"

Sisko disobeys orders to rescue the Detapa council from the Klingons. In the process, he uses the Defiant's cloak INSIDE the Alpha quadrant, in violation of the treaty of Algeron, thus committing an act of war against the Romulans. Also, he SELLS OUT the Klingons to the Cardies, and the Cardies are ready for the invasion when it comes, thus causing MORE Cardie and Klingon deaths than would have happened if he kept his nose out of it. He also committed an act of war against the Klingons by interfering with their attack on the Cardies in the first place. (Which is also a violation of the Prime Directive.)

Finally, he single-handedly starts the War with the Klingons, causing tens of thousands, if not more deaths on both sides.

Furthermore, he even knows that he's playing right into the hands of the Founders, because he tells the Klingons that inter-species war is exactly what they want, so while doing all of these things, he also proves himself to be a hyporcrite.

So let's add this one up:

3 total acts of war (1 against the Roms, 1 when he interfered with their attack on the Cardies, and 1 when he sold them out to the Cardies)
1 Violation of the Prime Directive

As a side note, in case you don't understand how evil it was to sell out the Klingons, consider this: Nation A is at war with Nation Z. Nation B is allies with Nation A, and bitter old enemies of Nation Z. However, Nation B thinks that Nation A is about to attack a daycare center of Nation Z, so they warn Nation Z. Nation B's intel is wrong, and it's not a daycare, but a weapons depot. Nevertheless, Nation Z is now ready for the attack, and they kill several Nation A soldiers who wouldn't have died if the extra defense wasn't in place. Who was to blame here? ONLY Nation B. They had bad intel, and they sold out their ALLIES to their ENEMIES, and they got their OWN ALLIES killed. That is exactly what Sisko did, except he also did it AGAINST ORDERS, and IN VIOLATION of the Prime Directive at the same time!

Another side point: Long-term effects of Sisko's actions here: He saved Dukat's life. In the end of season 5, what did Dukat do? Allied the Cardies with the Dominion, thus giving the Dominion a foothold in the Alpha quadrant, thus starting the Dominion War. If Dukat had died, and the Klingons had taken control of Cardassia, the Dominion would never have had a foothold on this side of the wormhole. Way to pick the right side, Sisko...



Now, on to the next example:

2) "For the Uniform" Once again against orders, Sisko hunts down Eddington because he hurt Sisko's pride by being smarter than Sisko was. Sisko murders a shipfull of Maquis fighters (Federation Citizens, remember) in cold blood. (Later, Eddington once again proves himself to be the better man by not killing Sisko when he disabled the Defiant.) But worse than that, Sisko used ILLEGAL biogenic weapons against a planetfull of FEDERATION CITIZENS, just to satisfy his personal vendetta against Eddington. He poisened hundreds, if not thousands, of INNOCENT people to death to get Eddington to surrender himself! (And in case you think he didn't kill anyone, the dialog says that the torpedoes POISON the atmosphere. And the VFX take a mere few SECONDS to cover the entire planet. There is no way anyone who wasn't right by a ship got off alive.

And what's more, Sisko was going to poison EVERY MAquis planet until Eddington surrendered! He was going to go vigilante and wipe out thousands of innocent Federation citizens to get his man.




Now, before I go on to other examples, riddle me this: Why hasn't this man been arrested yet? Let's think about "loose cannons" of the past. Kirk for instance, broke the rules. Most notably, by stealing the Enterprise and going back to Genesis. In so doing, he rescued Spock, one of the best officers in SF at the time, and stopped the Federation's enemy from getting their hands on the ultimate weapon, but more importantly, kept the knowledge of how to create the Genesis weapon out of everyone's hands. So, it is not exaggeration to say that he single-handedly saved the whole stinking GALAXY by breaking the rules in that case. And what was his reward? Until he saved Earth and the petty small-minded humans thereon, they were going to court-martial him and ruin his career. For SAVING THE GALAXY, they were going to court-martial him.

Now, when Sisko breaks the rules, he doesn't save people, he gets them killed, or outright murders them himself. And his punishment? A PROMOTION!! He murders innocent people, violates the Prime Directive, and starts wars with Federation allies, and HE'S the hero! Kirk SAVES THE GALAXY, and he gets a court martial.

Please, someone explain to me how the humans have managed to hold together a Federation with logic like that . . .
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Martok
Posted: Mar 7 2011, 12:16 PM


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Ok I can explain.

Kirk, was the face of the federation to the outside and citizens. He was Captain of the Flagship for years, now an Admiral, and judging from Star Trek VII, he is famous and in the news a lot. So when he does a crime, all eyes are on him and the Federation, who then have to court martial the law breaker.

But Sisko, is on some space station in the middle of nowhere, doing things no one really cares about or knows of, as far as citizens go. So when he screws up, like Sisko does, why should they court martial him? No one is crying out for his blood in the federation, so who cares?

That is my theory; Star Fleet is more corrupt than the Rommies.
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Vorus
Posted: Mar 8 2011, 12:35 AM


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Your explanation at least has the virtue of being novel. Most people just jump to Sisko's (And the Federation's) defense, like good little Pavlovian Feddies.

You could be right, though. And by the time he was famous, he was considered a war hero, which puts him more in the "untouchable" category than Kirk ever was. But in any case, I definitely agree with your conclusion, the Federation and Starfleet are VERY corrupt, as anyone without a biased belief system can easily see.
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Martok
Posted: Mar 9 2011, 10:42 PM


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Indeed. And I like that weather they know it or not, tons of writers have made them Corrupt in thier stories. Including Ctyptic, with Star Trek Online, but I think they may actually be intentional. Which is very cool on Cryptics part.

Also, I am eager for you to post some not so obvious ones. Including perhaps not "crimes" necessarily, but hypocrisy and or insanity? A request, is all. biggrin.gif
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Vorus
Posted: Mar 10 2011, 12:58 AM


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Here's a less obvious one:

In the end of season 7, Sisko was unhappy with the way that Gowron was handling the Klingon military. He and Worf talked about it, and they came to the conclusion that Gowron was just out to get glory for himself, and while he was at it, he wanted to take some of the fame away from Martok. So, sisko decided that Gowron had to go, and he tells Worf to take care of it, knowing full well that he was telling Worf to kill Gowron.

Now, let's look at the problems here:

1) He's once again anti-Klingon. At the beginning of the episode, Sisko is upset about Gowron ordering a strike against the Dominion that resulted in a Klingon loss. Gowron defends his choice of strategy, and blames Martok for not carrying out the attack correctly, but he lets Martok keep his ship.

Now, in the first episode of Season four, Sisko defeated the Klingons and saved the Cardie Detapa Council from the Klingons. Do you remember what happened to the Klingon that was in command of that mission? Sisko should, Martok gave him a d'k'tagh that used to belong to that commander. That's right, MARTOK KILL HIM because he got outmaneuvered in his mission. And yet, when Martok lost a battle that he was entrusted, Gowron even let him keep his command, much less his life. And yet, Sisko acts like Gowron is being unreasonable here.

So, at the very least, Sisko is showing a PROFOUND lack of understanding of Klingon culture, and more correctly, he is once again showing that he disapproves of the way Klingons do things, and that he thinks his way is better.

And let's be fair here, Martok was a good General, but just a year before the episode in question, Worf considered Martok a coward, and had to nearly kill him to make him see what a coward he was being. ("Soldiers of the Empire") So, it's not like Martok was perfect, therefore, there could be some truth to Gowron's belief that Martok should have been able to pull off the surprise attack. After all, Martok and Worf did in fact pull of an amazing surprise attack in the second episode of season 7, so it's not like the mission Gowron gave him would have been impossible.

In other words, it is entirely possible that Martok simply screwed up in his mission. He's clearly good enough to pull off a surprise attack, which is exactly what this mission was, and he was only outnumbered 6-to-1, much better odds than Worf's mission earlier in the same year. So, we have no reason to think that Gowron was being unnecessarily harsh on him, in fact, he let him keep his life and his command, because he understood that Martok was popular with the people, and a war hero.




2) Sisko is (And so is Worf, BTW) once AGAIN violating the Prime Directive by assassinating Gowron.



3) When it suits his purpose, Sisko is perfectly happy to go along with the Klingon custom of what humans would call premeditated murder. But a few years ago, he was so incensed about the idea of Worf killing Kurn to protect his honor that he blew a head gasket over it. But now that he wants Gowron out of the way, he's more than happy to let Worf go over there and kill him, JUST because it suits his goals. So, not only she he hold Worf accountable for murder, like he was going to with Kurn, he is being a complete hypocrite for now being all for the murder.
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Martok
Posted: Mar 10 2011, 02:17 AM


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QUOTE
because he understood that Martok was popular with the people, and a war hero.


And awesome. Let's not forget awesome. Best Klingon... Best Character in DS9... Best Chancellor... The list goes on...
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Vorus
Posted: Mar 11 2011, 02:16 AM


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I still like Kang and Kor better. tongue.gif

But he is definitely one of the best Klingons, and probably the best Chancellor we've ever seen, even though we didn't get to actually see him do much as Chancellor. At least he wasn't useless like Kempeq, or unpopular like Gowron. However, I do worry that he'd be too easily influenced by Starfleet and/or Worf.
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Martok
Posted: Mar 11 2011, 05:50 PM


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I Honestly didn't much care for Kang and Kor. They were ok, but not the best...

And maybe that. BUT, in "Nor the battle to the Strong" he wanted to stay and fight DS9, but Gowron made them leave. So while he might be influenced, it is only when the federation has their uneasy alliance with hem. Martok was completely prepared to destroy the station.

And he is with out a doubt the best Chancellor.

I would also like to submit that he is still the best semi-regular/regular character on DS9.
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Vorus
Posted: Mar 12 2011, 02:41 AM


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QUOTE
And maybe that. BUT, in "Nor the battle to the Strong" he wanted to stay and fight DS9, but Gowron made them leave. So while he might be influenced, it is only when the federation has their uneasy alliance with hem. Martok was completely prepared to destroy the station.

Actually, you're thinking of "Way of the Warrior". And unfortunately, he was already replaced by the Changeling at that point, so that wasn't the real Martok. The real Martok didn't actually appear until halfway through season 5, when he was rescued from the Jem'Hadar prison camp.
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Martok
Posted: Mar 12 2011, 03:19 PM


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What?! No! Darn those changelings! I was so sure I got that title right...

Fine! Forget I said anything!

Quick_Spock_Emoticon_by_Matoony310.gif
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Vorus
Posted: Apr 22 2011, 01:57 AM


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In fact, Martok only appeared in that one episode of Season 4, and then he didn't appear again until the first episode of Season 5, where it was revealed that he was the changeling. And then it was another half-season until the real Martok was finally seen. So, he was only in the last 2.5 years of the show.

One thing I always liked about Martok was that he once said that he would drink his 2309 bloodwine while standing with Sisko and Adm Ross on the surface of the conquered Cardassia. And when the war finally ended, they actually did that. Of course, by that time, the Cardies had switched sides, and gotten themselves slaughtered by the Jem'Hadar. So, both Sisko and Ross poured out their bloodwine on the ground, and Martok said "humans..." and drank his. I always like that not only did he follow through on his word, when Sisko and Ross chickened out, but that Martok was the only one that didn't thoroughly destroy his own morals and principles to get there. Ross was working with Section 31, and got an innocent Romulan killed to further a Sec 31 plot, and Sisko got at least two people killed to get the Rommies in the war, on top of his other crimes. So, in the end, it was a pure-hearted Klingon Warrior proudly standing over the broken world of the dead fools too stupid to join the right side from the start, and two broken, amoral, cowardly humans who couldn't even drink over the bodies of their fallen enemies. It could have been a Klingon propaganda film.
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Martok
Posted: Jun 10 2011, 05:19 AM


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See, that sort of thing is what I like about Martok. He is honorable. He is a competent warrior. And is truly the ideal Klingon in my book. Also his backstory is more interesting than most. NOT being from a good family, to being the Leader of the High Council! Worf was one the best Federation officers, but that was what he was. A Federation officer, often putting his Klingon ideals behind him to further the federation.

But I thought of another nail in Sisko's coffin.

In the Episode "The Maquis (Part 1)" he said "The federation does NOT fight secret wars" And he called the Cardassian act of killing of a federation terrorist a "Barbaric disregard for life"...

Well as for secret wars, what else would you call assassination of an ally's leader? Or killing people to get the Roms to join the war. It's not terrorrism, which is what he was talking about, but I would call all those things, "secret wars", or at least, it spat in the face of the ideal he just claimed to have.

And Barbaric disregard for life, he killed a planet full of his own people, enough said... Ok, not enough. He calls execution of a GUILTY CRIMINAL, barbaric. Ok, he killed monsters, but that makes him no less criminal. Yes it was a torturous gruesome death, but it just one man. One man tortured<whole planet poisoned. NOW enough said.
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Vorus
Posted: Jun 11 2011, 04:43 PM


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Good point, his attitude about the Maquis sure changed once one of them got the best of Sisko himself. He went from being sympathetic to their plight to murdering them in their homes, just because one guy made him look stupid. I think that's one of his biggest problems is that he thinks WAY too much of himself. "No one makes Ben Sisko look like the fool" seems to be his mentality. Any time that someone is doing something he doesn't approve of, he seems to think that he has the right, and perhaps even the OBLIGATION to make them see things his way, because he's Sisko, and he MUST be right.

Typically human.

QUOTE
In the Episode "The Maquis (Part 1)" he said "The federation does NOT fight secret wars" And he called the Cardassian act of killing of a federation terrorist a "Barbaric disregard for life"...

Yeah, barbaric disregard for life when the Maquis aren't fighting him, and then when they are, it's okay to kill them all, because now they're anti-Sisko. Think about it, once they attacked the USS Malinche (Who, for the record, was actually hunting for them to start with.) in "For the Uniform", Sisko said that they had crossed the line into being too dangerous to be allowed to continue. So, what about the Cardassians when THEY murder Federation and Starfleet personnel in the same zone for years on end? Sisko has no problem with the Cardies, but these Maquis have to go. What's the difference between the Maquis and the Cardies? The Maquis made Sisko look bad. That's the ONLY thing that the Maquis did that was "worse" than what the Cardies did. On every other possible front, the Cardies were MUCH worse than the Maquis, but since the Maquis made a fool of him, he suddenly goes on some sort of rampage. (Made even worse by the fact that his crew of cronies went right along with him, Worf included even.)

So that proves that Sisko's REAL reason for being so anti-Maquis later on had nothing to do with some sense of morality or justice, but actually a personal grudge against the Maquis.
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