Welcome to The Elephant Commentator. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Name:   Password:


*In a spectacular final demo, Latvian AR group Dzivnieku briviba (Animal Freedom) completed 27 peaceful protests over the summer against Riga Circus and its use of animals – especially the hiring of notorious “trainer” Lars Holscher with African female SONJA (39) and Asian female VANA MANA (43/45/47?). **16 animals, including an elephant (thought to be African female BABY), were seized under accusations of mistreatment from Circus Martin on Sardinia, Italy – the second time this year that the elephant has been impounded.
Pages: (3) [1] 2 3  ( Go to first unread post )

 The National Elephant Center, Fellsmere FL, (NOT a sanctuary): 4 Africans, 2.2
spiritedlulu
Posted: Sep 7 2011, 12:08 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



Elephant Center plans move to Fellsmere instead of St. Lucie County

FELLSMERE — The National Elephant Center is back, though the group looking to house elephants on the Treasure Coast plans to locate in Fellsmere, as opposed to western St. Lucie County.


http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/sep/07/ele...fellsmere-from/


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
Space4Eles
Posted: Sep 7 2011, 12:25 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 13,552
Member No.: 2
Joined: 30-August 11



QUOTE
"We think it's a win-win for everybody," Barongi said.


Yep, everybody but the elephants.


--------------------
"They need to move and have stimulation. They need to be browsing, foraging, socialising. They need to have reason for movement." Pat Derby, PAWS, on elephants' needs.
Top
Ellie
Posted: Sep 7 2011, 01:30 PM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 400
Member No.: 6
Joined: 31-August 11



I wonder if the National Elephant Center will have to adhere to AZA new protected contact rule in a few years?
I'm sure they won't have any problems weaseling around that requirement. They've become experts at weaseling around things.
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Sep 7 2011, 01:41 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



They went to the trouble and expense to relocate the center just to get away from the no bull-hook ban, so no, I don't think they are going to adhere to the new protected contact rules. Sleazebags !


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Sep 8 2011, 08:15 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



POLL: Vote "NO" Being held captive in a zoo for forced breeding, no space to roam, no choice, suffering in a barn during too cold winter months are just some of the reasons there are so many "needy" elephants in zoos.

http://www.tcpalm.com/polls/2011/sep/0908_...ntPoll/results/


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Sep 9 2011, 11:43 AM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



A couple of good comments ...

Fellsmere city manager: 'We look at elephants as just big cows'

Animal-rights leaders said a project this big should have gone before the public for review as it did in St. Lucie. Commissioners there approved it 18 months ago, but posed so many restrictions the elephant organization looked elsewhere.

Some of those restrictions included limiting the number of elephants on the site, oversight for the center and eliminating bull hooks or guides from use at the site. Bull hooks resemble fireplace pokers and are sometimes used to train and direct the animals.


http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/sep/08/fel...t-elephants-as/


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Sep 9 2011, 09:12 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



Animal-rights group want public hearing on proposed elephant center in Fellsmere

FELLSMERE — Animal-rights groups Friday called on the City Council to schedule a public hearing on the National Elephant Center's breeding and retirement ranch, proposed for 225 acres south of the C-54 Canal.

In a prepared statement Friday, the Humane Society of Vero Beach and Indian River County referred to the center going before the St. Lucie County Commission last year when they were looking at a 326-acre area on the Okeechobee County border. St. Lucie approved the project, but added conditions, such as no use of bull hooks or guides, that sent center officials looking elsewhere.


http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/sep/09/ani...-hearing-on-in/


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Sep 10 2011, 11:34 AM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



Big, gray cows with trunks, floppy ears

Of course, maybe Fellsmere City Manager Jason Nunemaker was thinking “cash cows,” when he talked of how easily the city probably would approve a 225-acre private elephant ranch.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bizarre/cont...nks-floppy-ears


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Sep 12 2011, 08:34 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



Elephant center permit not given special treatment by St. Johns River Water Management District

Elephant center permit among many issued quickly by regional water management district

FELLSMERE — Regional water-management staffers didn't give any special attention to quickly reviewing and approving a permit in two months for the National Elephant Center planned for south of the C-54 Canal, one of the reviewers said Monday.


http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/sep/12/ele...issued-quickly/


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Sep 12 2011, 08:40 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



Lindsey said Melbourne engineering consultant David Tom contacted her office in May about a 255-acre proposed elephant ranch on behalf of his client, the Fellsmere-based Sunshine State Wildlife Conservation LLC.

That company, formed in September 2010, is leasing the land from Fellsmere Joint Venture and is subleasing it out to the National Elephant Center.


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Sep 13 2011, 09:54 AM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



Zoo group wants to open elephant care center in Fellsmere

But other animal advocates have expressed concerns the National Elephant Center.

The Animal Rights Foundation of Florida, In Defense of Animals and the Humane Society of Vero Beach & Indian River County have asked Fellsmere to host a public hearing on the permits needed for the facility. ARFF spokesman Don Anthony said the groups want to ensure the elephants will be properly treated and were concerned about oversight of the center.


http://www.floridatoday.com/article/201109...enter-Fellsmere


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Sep 14 2011, 06:33 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



Mr. Lemmon, the "animal lover," could use some educating:

However, Nunemaker is hoping to build an observation tower along a walking/biking trail, so the public can see the elephants from afar. As he said, there aren't many places in North America where you can do that.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/sep/14/rus...-makes-us-do-a/


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
Ellie
Posted: Sep 16 2011, 07:26 AM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 400
Member No.: 6
Joined: 31-August 11



TC Palm has a poll you can vote for or against the NEC in Fellsmere

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/sep/09/ani...-hearing-on-in/
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Sep 24 2011, 02:14 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



National Elephant Center: The Sequel

Last week, the National Elephant Center announced that it had abandoned St. Lucie County in favor of land in the City of Fellsmere, about an hour to the north. The plans for the Center have not changed very much since 2008, but the timing of last week’s announcement was much different than three years ago. This time the Center waited until most of its permit applications had been approved before contacting the press. To keep the press and animal advocates from asking questions beforehand, the National Elephant Center created a corporation called, “Sunshine State Wildlife Conservation,” under which permits were applied for. The Center also omitted certain details from its application. For example, in the over 100 pages of site plans, technical reports, letters and emails that make up its application to obtain a permit from the St. Johns River Water Management District, the word “elephant” only appears once (in an email from an agency employee). Animal welfare issues are never addressed. The impact of elephants on the environment was not considered. We don’t think that’s wise public policy, and it’s definitely not good for elephants.

http://www.blog.animalrightsflorida.org/?p=1039


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Oct 13 2011, 07:33 AM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



Elephant ranch in Fellsmere to avoid use of controversial bullhook

FELLSMERE — Workers at the National Elephant Center won't be using the bullhook or guide, a tool that resembles a fireplace poker, to control their massive animals, one of its board members said last week.

At least not unless they absolutely have to, Keith Winsten said.


http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/oct/13/ele...o-avoid-use-of/


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
Space4Eles
Posted: Oct 13 2011, 09:41 AM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 13,552
Member No.: 2
Joined: 30-August 11



Winsten also says:
But some animals might need more direct interaction at first, he said. And it won't be the old-fashioned sharp metal implement, he said, but something more modern and lightweight.

" ... something more modern and lightweight."


--------------------
"They need to move and have stimulation. They need to be browsing, foraging, socialising. They need to have reason for movement." Pat Derby, PAWS, on elephants' needs.
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Oct 13 2011, 11:59 AM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



"This is all hogwash," said Pat Derby, president of the Performing Animal Welfare Society in Galt, Calif. "We've had elephants for 25 years and we've never used a bullhook on any one of them."

A facility doesn't need to spend weeks transitioning an elephant to positive reinforcement, she said, because an elephant is intelligent and can pick up the new methods in a day or so.


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Nov 12 2011, 12:57 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



National Elephant Center

An association of the nation's top zoos has chosen an old citrus grove in Fellsmere in Indian River County to build its 225-acre National Elephant Center to lodge African and Asian elephants. The Association of Zoos & Aquariums believes a center will give member zoos flexibility in managing their elephants. The center, opening its first phase in 2012, will take in elephants whose zoo facilities are undergoing renovation, older bulls unmanageable at their existing zoos and elephants whose exhibits close. The center also will be a training center for elephant workers.

Rick Barongi, center chairman and director of the Houston Zoo, says the Florida site has the right climate, no residential neighbors and is near zoos and Disney that have excellent elephant care expertise.

Polk County, incidentally, is home to the 200-acre Ringling Bros and Barnum & Bailey Circus Center for Elephant Conservation, site of the largest Asian elephant herd in North America.

http://insurancenewsnet.com/article.aspx?id=298442


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
Ellie
Posted: Nov 12 2011, 01:30 PM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 400
Member No.: 6
Joined: 31-August 11



If I had to guess I'd say The NEC search for breeding grounds was because Barongi needs a place to breed elephants outside of Houston Zoo since the zoo seems to be plagued with the EERV virus and they don't know how it is spreading.
Top
t&tt
Posted: Nov 23 2011, 03:36 AM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,811
Member No.: 5
Joined: 31-August 11



Nov 16, 2011 correspondence to Toronto Zoo.

Gives "current update on...progress" of NEC.
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2011/zb...dfile-42457.pdf

NEC Mission Statement
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2011/zb...dfile-42458.pdf

Source document: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItem...item=2011.ZB9.1

Source post - Toronto Zoo, 11/22/11: http://z13.invisionfree.com/Elephant_Comme...ndpost&p=510863


--------------------
People "would rather have a comfortable reality than an accurate reality." - Psychologist & Lawyer, Dr. Bryant Welch
Top
Space4Eles
Posted: Jan 7 2012, 12:52 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 13,552
Member No.: 2
Joined: 30-August 11



Elephant Center chooses builder, might start construction in 2 months in Fellsmere

Borangi said the first phase would include 4 or 5 acres of pasture, drinking-water ponds, a barn large enough to hold nine elephants at night, a keeper's work area, fencing strong enough to withstand a leaning elephant and upgrades to the site's electrical system.

Contrary to some public speculation, Borangi said he didn't envision fences having to deal with elephants charging.

"It's a big area, so there won't be pressure on the perimeter fence," he said.


http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian...hs-in-fellsmere


Members of AR groups "probably won't be invited" ....


[Thanks to SL for pointing out that I had posted this on the incorrect forum and topic!]


--------------------
"They need to move and have stimulation. They need to be browsing, foraging, socialising. They need to have reason for movement." Pat Derby, PAWS, on elephants' needs.
Top
Space4Eles
Posted: Jan 8 2012, 07:31 AM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 13,552
Member No.: 2
Joined: 30-August 11



The first article posted on this topic (on 7 September 2011 by spiritedlulu) contains a link to an "overall concept plan" of the exhibit, and a link to "the west side concept site plan."
Neither plan is very detailed, but they do give a visual idea of the lay-out.
Here is a link to the article again:
http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/sep/07/ele...fellsmere-from/


--------------------
"They need to move and have stimulation. They need to be browsing, foraging, socialising. They need to have reason for movement." Pat Derby, PAWS, on elephants' needs.
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Mar 9 2012, 05:54 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



Elephant Center's new director to outline facility's plans Tuesday

The first eight or nine elephants may arrive sometime this year, board Chairman Rick Borangi has estimated. And the center could eventually house up to 40 elephants in coming years.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2012/mar/09/ele...-outline-plans/


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Mar 13 2012, 06:44 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11




While the facility will only be open for limited public tours, the city of Fellsmere is looking for ways to take advantage.

Fellsmere City Manager Jason Nunemaker said the center is,"an opportunity for us to utilize our green space and make it productive and something that's really unique and fits with what we're trying to do as far as eco-tourism."

The plan is to break ground in the next four weeks and have eight to ten elephants on the property by the end of the year.


Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian...e#ixzz1p2lQmMIa


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
t&tt
Posted: Mar 31 2012, 02:04 AM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,811
Member No.: 5
Joined: 31-August 11



Elephant center in Indian River County highlights issue behind zoo animals bill

Groundbreaking is planned next week for the National Elephant Center in Indian River County, which supporters and opponents alike of HB 1117 say represents their arguments on the bill.

http://www.thefloridacurrent.com/article.cfm?id=27170265


--------------------
People "would rather have a comfortable reality than an accurate reality." - Psychologist & Lawyer, Dr. Bryant Welch
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Apr 2 2012, 07:13 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



Elephant Center breaking ground Wednesday

And it's expected to house fewer than 10 elephants for the first few years, both the African and Asian species, while the full project is estimated to allow for 36 pachyderms in coming years.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2012/apr/02/ele...ound-wednesday/


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Apr 4 2012, 03:55 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



National Elephant Center breaks ground in Fellsmere

"It's not only going to be home for elephants in retirement, but for breeding and training. It will be a dynamic center," said Ric Barongi with the National Elephant Center.

Fellsmere Mayor Susan Adams said, "We're trying to integrate the center into our greenways trail with an observation tower so people can view the elephants."



Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian...e#ixzz1r6iEjv4I



--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Apr 5 2012, 07:53 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



News Video. The reporter talks about Toppy, an elephant that died enroute to the San Diego Zoo from a zoo in Florida.

http://www.wpbf.com/news/south-florida/tre...mz/-/index.html


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Apr 6 2012, 01:21 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



Political angry.gif

"This is a great link between Indian River and Brevard counties," said state Sen. Thad Altman, R-Melbourne who said he hopes to run for a newly configured district that would include Fellsmere. "It's exciting to see our (Brevard) zoo step out and provide a service."


http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/apr/06...coming-florida/


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
spiritedlulu
Posted: Jul 6 2012, 09:21 PM


Administrator


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,714
Member No.: 1
Joined: 28-August 11



Work continuing on National Elephant Center in Fellsmere

And the Association of Zoos and Aquariums' policy states that facilities with elephants are to use protective barriers between the keepers and the pachyderms. That means positive reinforcement — and not the controversial "bullhooks," or elephant guides — to move the animals around, Lehnhardt said.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2012/jul/06/wor...hant-center-in/


--------------------
"What surprises me the most is the number of zoo veterinarians and zoo keepers that continue to visit Sauraha but never helped to get these elephants off chains. Seem unconscionable to me."
Carol Buckley, Nepal's Chain-Free Corral Project in Sauraha
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
« Next Oldest | Zoo Elephants - the Americas | Next Newest »

Topic OptionsPages: (3) [1] 2 3 



Hosted for free by InvisionFree* (Terms of Use: Updated 2/10/2010) | Powered by Invision Power Board v1.3 Final © 2003 IPS, Inc.
Page creation time: 0.2837 seconds | Archive