Electric Boogaloo -> Damn Extortioners!!!

Damn Extortioners!!!

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Man of Tomorrow

Posted: Mar 28 2008, 10:13 PM

Sr. Mexican PimpJuice

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From http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/business...gin&oref=slogin

QUOTE

LOS ANGELES � Time Warner is no longer the sole proprietor of Superman.
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Sotheby's, via Associated Press

Max Shuster, left, and Jerry Siegel, right, sold the rights to Superman in 1938 for $130.

A federal judge here on Wednesday ruled that the heirs of Jerome Siegel � who 70 years ago sold the rights to the action hero he created with Joseph Shuster to Detective Comics for $130 � were entitled to claim a share of the United States copyright to the character. The ruling left intact Time Warner�s international rights to the character, which it has long owned through its DC Comics unit.

And it reserved for trial questions over how much the company may owe the Siegel heirs for use of the character since 1999, when their ownership is deemed to have been restored. Also to be resolved is whether the heirs are entitled to payments directly from Time Warner�s film unit, Warner Brothers, which took in $200 million at the domestic box office with �Superman Returns� in 2006, or only from the DC unit�s Superman profits.

Still, the ruling threatened to complicate Warner�s plans to make more films featuring Superman, including another sequel and a planned movie based on the DC Comics� �Justice League of America,� in which he joins Batman, Wonder Woman and other superheroes to battle evildoers.

If the ruling survives a Time Warner legal challenge, it may also open the door to a similar reversion of rights to the estate of Mr. Shuster in 2013. That would give heirs of the two creators control over use of their lucrative character until at least 2033 � and perhaps longer, if Congress once again extends copyright terms � according to Marc Toberoff, a lawyer who represents the Siegels and the Shuster estate.

�It would be very powerful,� said Mr. Toberoff, speaking by telephone on Friday. �After 2013, Time Warner couldn�t exploit any new Superman-derived works without a license from the Siegels and Shusters.�

Time Warner lawyers declined to discuss the decision, a spokesman said. A similar ruling in 2006 allowed the Siegels to recapture their rights in the Superboy character, without determining whether Superboy was, in fact, the basis for Warner Brothers�s �Smallville� television series. The decision was later challenged in a case that has yet to be resolved, said Mr. Toberoff, who represented the family in that action.

This week�s decision by Stephen G. Larson, a judge in the Federal District Court for the Central District of California, provided long-sought vindication to the wife and daughter of Mr. Siegel, who had bemoaned until his death in 1996 having parted so cheaply with rights to the lucrative hero.

�We were just stubborn,� Joanne Siegel, Mr. Siegel�s widow, said in a joint interview with her daughter, Laura Siegel Larson. �It was a dream of Jerry�s, and we just took up the task.�

The ruling specifically upheld the Seigels� copyright in the Superman material published in Detective Comics� Action Comics Vol. 1. The extent to which later iterations of the character are derived from that original was not determined by the judge.

In an unusually detailed narrative, the judge�s 72-page order described how Mr. Siegel and Mr. Shuster, as teenagers at Glenville High School in Cleveland, became friends and collaborators on their school newspaper in 1932. They worked together on a short story, �The Reign of the Superman,� in which their famous character first appeared not as hero, but villain.

By 1937, the pair were offering publishers comic strips in which the classic Superman elements � cape, logo and Clark Kent alter-ego � were already set. When Detective Comics bought 13 pages of work for its new Action Comics series the next year, the company sent Mr. Siegel a check for $130, and received in return a release from both creators granting the company rights to Superman �to have and hold forever,� the order noted.

In the late 1940s, a referee in a New York court upheld Detective Comics� copyright, prompting Mr. Siegel and Mr. Shuster to drop their claim in exchange for $94,000. More than 30 years later, DC Comics (the successor to Detective Comics) gave the creators each a $20,000-per-year annuity that was later increased to $30,000. In 1997, however, Mrs. Siegel and her daughter served copyright termination notices under provisions of a 1976 law that permits heirs, under certain circumstances, to recover rights to creations.

Mr. Toberoff, their lawyer, has been something of a gadfly to Warner in the past. In the late 1990s, for example, he represented Gilbert Ralston, a television writer, in a legal battle over his rights in the CBS television series �The Wild Wild West,� which was the basis for a 1999 Warner Brothers film that starred Will Smith. The case, said Mr. Toberoff, was settled.

Compensation to the Siegels would be limited to any work created after their 1999 termination date. Income from the 1978 �Superman� film, or the three sequels that followed in the 1980s, are not at issue. But a �Superman Returns� sequel being planned with the filmmaker Bryan Singer (who has also directed �The Usual Suspects� and �X-Men�) might require payments to the Siegels, should they prevail in a demand that the studio�s income, not just that of the comics unit, be subject to a court-ordered accounting.

Mrs. Siegel and Ms. Larson said it was too soon to make future plans for the Superman character. But they were inclined to relish this moment.

�I have lived in the shadow of this my whole life,� Ms. Larson said. �I am so happy now, I just can�t explain it.�

They SOLD the fuckin rights!!!
If I sell my car to someone and years later I look for the guy claiming "Hey, you have been using my car, you owe me money for all these years", that'd mean I'm a fuckin extortioner who wants money at expense of any dirty ruse!!

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QUOTE (Ivy)

Dude. Vic. Just find another girl. Most of us have vaginas.

Prime	Posted: Mar 29 2008, 07:28 AM
Lord of the Dance! Group: Members Posts: 3,126 Member No.: 33 Joined: 18-February 07	Yes, they sold the rights, and in a better world we'd all learn from the mistakes of Schuster and Seigel and plan better futures for ourselves. However, there was a law passed to allow the heirs to claim the rights their forebears surrendered. In all honesty, I think it's bullshit how these people who had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of one of the most lucrative fictional characters of all time are going to be reaping millions from it. If anything, the rights should be held by the estate, which doesn't legally exist past the deaths of those who hold it. -------------------- Courtesy, your friendly neighborhood pervert.

gland	Posted: Mar 29 2008, 06:48 PM
no YOU'RE a tardis!!! Group: Members Posts: 2,937 Member No.: 31 Joined: 18-February 07	I fully support creator rights, and I wish to god that Seigel and Shuster had gotten everything they deserved from DC. But this isn't about them anymore. It's about some people who didn't do a thing to create Superman wanting to reap the benefits of it like they created it themselves. Wasn't there something about them getting a $130,000 stipend every year just cuz? -------------------- Read Blue Beetle. HELP HIM WITH HIS SEXY FIGHT.

Man of Tomorrow

Posted: Mar 29 2008, 06:56 PM

Sr. Mexican PimpJuice

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But the fuckin greedy people wanted more.
They wanted millions!!

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QUOTE (Ivy)

Dude. Vic. Just find another girl. Most of us have vaginas.

b8amack	Posted: Mar 29 2008, 08:37 PM
LOGOPOIOS Group: Admin Posts: 26,197 Member No.: 23 Joined: 20-September 05	They sold the rights FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY. (35-6 years only, actually, which turned into 72 through time/warner's legal manipulation, despite shuster himself fighting it.) This is 35 years overdue. The greedy people own a little company called DC Comics, Vic. --------------------

b8amack

Posted: Mar 29 2008, 08:39 PM

LOGOPOIOS

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QUOTE (gland @ Mar 30 2008, 11:48 AM)

I fully support creator rights, and I wish to god that Seigel and Shuster had gotten everything they deserved from DC. But this isn't about them anymore. It's about some people who didn't do a thing to create Superman wanting to reap the benefits of it like they created it themselves.

Yes. They're called "Time/Warner". But no, you don't fully support creators' rights. Or you'd support their rights to pass the legal rights to their life's work on to their spouses and loved ones.

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gland

Posted: Mar 29 2008, 09:04 PM

no YOU'RE a tardis!!!

Group: Members
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QUOTE (b8amack @ Mar 29 2008, 08:39 PM)

QUOTE (gland @ Mar 30 2008, 11:48 AM)

I fully support creator rights, and I wish to god that Seigel and Shuster had gotten everything they deserved from DC.� But this isn't about them anymore.� It's about some people who didn't do a thing to create Superman wanting to reap the benefits of it like they created it themselves.

Yes. They're called "Time/Warner". But no, you don't fully support creators' rights. Or you'd support their rights to pass the legal rights to their life's work on to their spouses and loved ones.

This isn't the evil big company vs the trampled on little guy. This is the company that didn't create Superman vs the people that didn't create Superman. Neither of them really deserve to real the full benefits of this creation. The Seigel heirs are not Jerry Seigel. I don't care what the legal standpoint of this or that is. You don't deserve to reap the benefits of a multi bazillion dollar franchise if you didn't contribute to its creation.

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Read Blue Beetle. HELP HIM WITH HIS SEXY FIGHT.

b8amack	Posted: Mar 29 2008, 10:01 PM
LOGOPOIOS Group: Admin Posts: 26,197 Member No.: 23 Joined: 20-September 05	So Superman should become public domain? I'd agree with that. Hopefully this ruling will help that eventually come to pass. Superman is due to become public domain in about 20 years. Time/Warner is going to fight a lot less hard to prevent that if it means they have to ask the Siegel/Shuster heirs for permission. --------------------

Man of Tomorrow

Posted: Mar 29 2008, 10:18 PM

Sr. Mexican PimpJuice

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Wait, just because something is known by everyone and popular in extreme, should become public domain so anyone who wants can exploit it and obtain benefits from it?
That's absurd.
I own something but it's known worldwide, so I can make money with it...
So, Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny should become public domain too?
....

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QUOTE (Ivy)

Dude. Vic. Just find another girl. Most of us have vaginas.

Prime	Posted: Mar 29 2008, 10:29 PM
Lord of the Dance! Group: Members Posts: 3,126 Member No.: 33 Joined: 18-February 07	The last thing Mickey Mouse did that I can think of was the Kingdom Hearts series, which is still going on, but he's a supporting character at best. And nobody gives a flying fuck about the Loony Toons anymore. -------------------- Courtesy, your friendly neighborhood pervert.

b8amack

Posted: Mar 30 2008, 04:51 AM

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QUOTE (Man of Tomorrow @ Mar 30 2008, 03:18 PM)

Legally and historically, yes, they should. And I think both of them will become public domain about the same time as Superman, unless copyright terms are extended yet again. I don't see anyone complaining that anyone can use sherlock holmes or Dracula in a movie or comic book (some incredible stories have been written because of that, including by DC) or that ANYONE who wants to can put on a play of any of Shakespeare's works, without paying a fucking dime. How dare they?

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John	Posted: Mar 30 2008, 08:21 AM
More exciting than a weekend with Batman. Group: Members Posts: 2,498 Member No.: 41 Joined: 20-February 07	Can you imagine how much money you would make if it turned out ou were the long lost heir of Shakespeare. Oh God, I think I'm drooling at the thought of all that money...

b8amack	Posted: Mar 30 2008, 09:52 AM
LOGOPOIOS Group: Admin Posts: 26,197 Member No.: 23 Joined: 20-September 05	You wouldn't get a dime. Public. Domain. --------------------