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 Re: Current Situation, Is this forum still viable?
Kodegadulo
Posted: Feb 10 2018, 02:17 PM


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In a way, this question is a continuation of this one that Double sharp put out nearly a year ago. The immediate cause of that situation is no longer a member of this forum, so this question seems moot. Nevertheless some of us started taking steps (again) to make sure that even if this place continued to degenerate into flamewars, those of us of like minds at least could still continue collaborating fruitfully ... somewhere else.

From the DGW Spreadsheet thread:
QUOTE (Kodegadulo @ Feb 10 2018, 02:13 PM)
Oschkar posted a question here yesterday asking whether I had a story yet for the units of photometry ... but he later deleted his post, telling me offline that he thought we were just going to switch to a more modern channel for collaborating. This merits some branching discussions...


I dunno, I'd like to be an optimist, and hold out hope that this place may still be viable. Do any of the rest of the membership still share that hope?
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Double sharp
Posted: Feb 10 2018, 03:21 PM


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QUOTE (Kodegadulo @ Feb 10 2018, 02:17 PM)
I dunno, I'd like to be an optimist, and hold out hope that this place may still be viable. Do any of the rest of the membership still share that hope?

I certainly do, and since I originally raised the question, I hope that counts for something! wink.gif We have gotten a lot of good work out here even in the past few months. It really does seem that when we're not forced to spend our limited time here defending our ideas against the same old charges we can get something new and interesting out. Now that the source of most of these charges is gone, I'm sure we can continue to extend and build up our systems.

It would be a shame if this place had to be given up, since the alternative that you invited us to is not open for viewing to outsiders. I suppose we could discuss there and post finished products here, but I think part of the fun and interest for people just getting into this is the tale of how these ideas came about, which might stimulate them into thinking over similar lines.
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Kodegadulo
Posted: Feb 10 2018, 04:08 PM


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QUOTE (Double sharp @ Feb 10 2018, 03:21 PM)
It would be a shame if this place had to be given up, since the alternative that you invited us to is not open for viewing to outsiders. I suppose we could discuss there and post finished products here, but I think part of the fun and interest for people just getting into this is the tale of how these ideas came about, which might stimulate them into thinking over similar lines.

Agreed, considering also that that alternative won't typeset formulas, and would have to rely on pointing to shared resources like Google Sheets or Docs for any significant presentation. That said, it remains to be seen what the Tapatalk future holds for us here...
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Kodegadulo
Posted: Feb 10 2018, 07:18 PM


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Incidentally, it's only after coming up for air that I've even noticed that DS and Oschkar never came up with avatars for themselves here (that could theoretically be transferred elsewhere, at need, for the sake of continuity). But I suppose that could be rectified now fairly easily.

The solution to that for DS should be fairly obvious I think: An image derived, say, from Unicode Character 'MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE SHARP' (U+1D12Ax) 𝄪, image:
user posted image
Or maybe just two ordinary musical sharps, juxtaposed in some artful way. I suspect we've discussed this before, as it seems vaguely familiar...

As for Oschkar, might take a little thought... Something with the diamond shape you used for Ashtrian?

Up to you guys, of course. smile.gif If your stance is that you wish to assert your right to publicly eschew all frivolous ornamentation, and maintain an Amish-like plainness and simplicity, then I for one will vigorously defend that right. biggrin.gif

EDIT: Oh of course, it was in your intro thread:
QUOTE (Treisaran @ Sep 25 2015, 09:58 AM)
Welcome, ♯♯. smile.gif

Although unfortunately Treisaran's post (like so many others) has been shredded by the Unicode/Western encoding debacle that InvisionFree imposed on us since 1200z, and Treisaran doesn't seem to be around any more to fix it. I had to forcibly convert this quote to Western encoding to get it to show properly.
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Kodegadulo
Posted: Feb 11 2018, 08:19 PM


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So, no other members, past or present, holding any hope that this forum is still a going concern...?
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Shaun
Posted: Feb 11 2018, 09:26 PM


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52 views so far.

Maybe those members who have looked at this topic are not as pessimistic about the future of the forum as you appear to be.

Now that hostilities have ceased I expect to see some of those members returning who were put off by the fighting. And of course some of those 52 may well have been guests.

Is there some special reason for asking the question in the first place? Your own posts suggest that the original reason is probably no longer applicable. I quote:

"In a way, this question is a continuation of this one that Double sharp put out nearly a year ago. The immediate cause of that situation is no longer a member of this forum, ....
Nevertheless some of us started taking steps (again) to make sure that even if this place continued to degenerate into flamewars, those of us of like minds at least could still continue collaborating fruitfully ... somewhere else."

I see no reason why 'this place' should 'degenerate into flamewars'. We have parted the combatants. This forum is a going concern as long as there are people interested in dozenals.

If you wish to set up a new site for yourself and your friends please do; you could have done that ages ago to develop your ideas further without any interruption. It does not mean three you have to leave this forum while you have valuable ideas to contribute. Also with the site changing to Tapatalk we are hoping for an improvement in presentation and efficiency that all will find acceptable.
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Kodegadulo
Posted: Feb 11 2018, 10:07 PM


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Well the possibility of attracting the types of people who simply want to troll is always there. There have been a number here recently who seem to just want to spar.

But I'm not so much pessimistic as hopeful but waiting to see. At the moment though it's just been awful quiet. No doubt many of the more reasonable members were put off by the recent flaming, and they just need a little time. Or they just need some interesting new topics to pop up, in a genial atmosphere...

As for another channel for communicating, it doesn't need to be mutually exclusive. Some folks just prefer to PM to collaborate sometimes... and well, there are far better channels for that than the rather awkward PM system here.
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Shaun
Posted: Feb 12 2018, 06:43 AM


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QUOTE (Kodegadulo @ Feb 11 2018, 10:07 PM)
Well the possibility of attracting the types of people who simply want to troll is always there.

Hardly a reason for keeping going!
We're here to provide information for those interested in dozenals. Trolls come and go, usually propelled on their way.
No fresh news from Tapatalk. i am keeping in touch with them.
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icarus
Posted: Feb 12 2018, 08:43 PM


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The forum is what we make of it. It's as good or bad as we want it to be. There is a lot of good discussion here. It will be this way wherever you go; no place is perfect.

Suppose we "lock it down" and only permit arguments we like. Then we get an echo chamber and that's pretty boring. Also suppose we let anyone in. Then we get adverts for enhancements and other wonderful things. Only permitting discussion that supports our views weakens what we are discussing.

I'd like this forum to be as free as it can be. I think that makes for the best possible forum, short of our being in some lockdown paradise. What people do off this forum is their business.

Say what you want about those recently ushered out. I did enjoy her original thoughts. I did not enjoy the tussles and baiting, the cryptic and affected presentation of items that were insisted to be standard practice somewhere; the stating that maths and science were wrong - crankiness. These things bring dispersion upon dozenalists. Ultimately this is a dozenal forum. Want a twelfty forum? Plenty of space on the internet. We put up with it for many years and I reprieved it three times myself. At the end of the day we have to move on.

I live in St. Louis, "the most dangerous city in America." Bullshit. This is a great town. It has its problems, everyone knows, but any place has problems. It's what I make of it. I live, work, play, and pray here. It's my kids' and wife's hometown. I have a gingerbread house 400 steps from my office and walk everywhere I need to be. I am a self-made man; I am in full control of where I am. Sure there are things I do not like about St. Louis, just as there are things I don't like about Tuscany, Chicago, or Pensacola Beach. It's all what I make of it. At the end of the day, if I don't like how it is here, I could have moved to Tuscany, back to Chicago, or to Pensacola Beach, or a number of other places. Working for myself, I can live anywhere I want (ultimately we all work for ourselves. Why else work?) I could be working beachside ("working" is the problem with "beachside"). It's my choice to be here (a complex one involving other people in this case) and since I have chosen such, I am going to make the very best of it. It would be perfect if somehow the sunny beach could be down the road (it was 250 million years ago). But even in Pensacola Beach, it gets down to 19 degrees, and short of that, it still is gloomy winter during the winter. There is trouble in Tuscany too, dumps and wastewater treatment plants and malls-it's not all vineyards, castles, and mountaintop villages. But if you were to go to Tuscany and lament all the dumps and waterworks, you'd miss out on la bella vita. That would be sad. No place is perfect. Once I accept no place is perfect and am working with what I have, it becomes magnificent and there is no place I'd rather be. My whole life is here.

The forum is what you make of it. It will be great if you want to make it that way; otherwise it will flounder. Nothing lasts forever and it would be sad. Change happens and will happen again. So my suggestion is to make the place the kind of place you want to be, and it will tend toward that desire.
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Kodegadulo
Posted: Feb 12 2018, 09:44 PM


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Assuming default decimal [d]:

QUOTE (icarus @ Feb 12 2018, 08:43 PM)
But even in Pensacola Beach, it gets down to 19 degrees,...

I'm assuming you mean Fahrenheit (and decimal). That would be about -7C to our metric friends around the world. Quite cold indeed, for a subtropical place like Florida. Par for the course up here, of course. But it really gets that cold down there? Wow, then you're right, no place is perfect...
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