Naruto (spoiler heavy)

[Raichu]

SPOILER WARNING

Now that we have that out of the way, welcome to the spoiler heavy version of the Naruto thread. This thread is intended for full discussion of Naruto as current as it is in Japan, including both anime and manga. In other words, IF YOU DON'T WANT THE U.S. DUB OF THE SHOW OR THE MANGA RUINED FOR YOU, DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER. This thread accommodates anyone who loves reading ahead, or are living in Japan.

Last warning, don't read past this post if you don't want anything ruined for you. The rest of you may now begin.

[Blue Carbon]

Hahaha! Thank you so much Raichu! Now I can talk about Naruto Shippuuden. =^_^=

[Raichu]

No problem! Now let's get cracking:

Naruto 398: Konoha's Beginnings
Note: Go read Naruto 398 before reading this!

The last few issues have been very revealing. Tobi tells Sasuke, who just killed Itachi, that Itachi gifted Sasuke with Amaterasu to ensure that Sasuke and Tobi never met, on the chance that Tobi would know Itachi's terrible secret. Sasuke, understandably, has a hard time believing this, and remembers Itachi as an enemy that encouraged Sasuke to hate him. Sasuke blacks out, and after coming to, finds himself tied up, with Tobi explaining that it was the only way to get Sasuke to hear him out. Tobi then dropped a bombshell, saying that Itachi wiped out his own clan on orders from Konoha. To further explain why this order was given, Tobi goes into an explanation of Konoha's origins. It was 80 years ago that the ninja world was engulfed in war, with each clan hired to fight for a country, the strongest of which are the Uchiha clan, and Senju Clan of the Forest. Tobi claims that his powers were exceptional among the Uchihas (remember, Tobi is Uchiha Madara). Madara explains that he killed his friend and then his brother to advance his sharingan to a perfect level, and became leader of the Uchiha clan. He would fight the Senju clan many times, culminating in a battle with the leader of the Senju, Senju Hashirama, a man he admired most. And a man who would become the first Hokage.

My opinion: The Tobi is Obito position appears to be losing ground, as it is becoming more evident that Tobi is Madara Uchiha, who created the Akatsuki to his own ends. Tobi's words to Sasuke are doing a good job of turning his world, and the way we view the Ninja world, upside-down. Perhaps old man third wasn't as noble as we believed. But we should save our conclusions for the rest of Tobi's story. Tobi's revelations should open the way for near-endless fan speculation. I for one find this fascinating, and it held my attention to the point that I find it difficult to wait for the next one.

[Blue Carbon]

So there is a high possibility that Tobi is Madara instead of Obito. But, the mask, it has only one opening and it is towards Obito's only eye. Also, Tobi's hair, I think that it resembles that of Obito a lot more that the hair of Madara. But, I am not too sure myself, so I am sure that it could go either way. Yet, I am still unsure of the true identity of Tobi. But, I have not read the Manga, so I can't really say much about it.

This post has been edited by Blue Carbon on May 1 2008, 02:30 PM

[Raichu]

I'm just speculating, but he could be both Obito and Madara, like Madara transferring into Obito's body using a jutsu similar to Orochimaru's. Another point to consider is that Obito is a near anagram of Tobi.

In 397, we were close to seeing what was underneath the mask, but Itachi's gift Amaterasu kicked in, ruining that.

[Blue Carbon]

Hmm, I never thought about that. But wouldn't it have some kind of limit?

[Konata Izumi]

Orochimaru could only do it once every three years. But seriously, would a person really want to transfer outside of a body that was invincible and could move at the speed of light?

[Raichu]

Naruto #399: The Beginning of Everything
Note: Please read Naruto #399 before continuing!

Continuing his conversation with Sasuke, Tobi, now known to be Uchiha Madara, lets on more of his past. Picking up where we left off, Madara tells that the first man to be called Hokage was Hashirama, the leader of the Senju clan, the only clan to rival the Uchiha. Madara's reputation went up with his struggle against Hashirama.

Sasuke interjects, saying that it was for fame that Madara stole his bother's eyes. Madara admits that he did so, but he wanted the strength to protect the Uchiha clan. His brother was a sacrifice needed to protect Uchiha from Senju and the rivals they've amassed, not for fame. Madara says his brother agreed to the sacrifice, offering his own eyes (here is a difference between the story Itachi tells, and Madara's version of the story).

After this happened, the Senju clan asked for a truce with Uchiha, and the Uchiha clan agreed, with only the leader of the clan, Madara himself, opposing. He was upset that his brother's sacrifice went to waste. Though Madara was suspicious of the Senju clan, he grudgingly agreed to the truce.

It was at that time that Konohagakure was founded, the central village of the land of fire. When the other countries mimicked the village-centric model of the land of fire, fighting slowed. However, there was a dispute over the position of the leader of the land of fire, the hokage. As Hashirama was chosen for the position by the people of the village and the land of fire, Madara chose to oppose him to protect he Uchiha supremacy. However, with the rest of Uchiha sided with Hashirama, desiring peace. They quickly rejected Madara, saying that he was pursuing his own path of power. They even began to express doubts that Madara's brother volunteered his eyes to him. Betrayed by his own clan, Uchiha Madara left the village.

Later he would return to fight Konoha. He was intercepted by the first Hokage, Hashirama. It was at what is now called "The Valley of the End" that Madara was defeated (and now is home to a couple awesome statues). Everyone, including Hashirama, assumed that Madara died there.

As an act of good will, and to assure that another traitor like Madara would never surface, the second Hokage gave the Uchiha clan authority as the police force of Konoha. There were some Uchiha that realized that this was a move to keep the Uchiha from governing the village, and to keep the clan under surveillance, and there were some rebels. However, at that point, it was too late. Senju maintained supremacy, while the once-proud Uchiha became their loyal servants.

Later, the Kyubi, the nine-tailed fox now living inside Naruto, attacked Konoha. This was bad for Uchiha, because the power of the Uchiha was the only thing known to control Kyubi. Suspecting that Uchiha was behind the incident, they came to believe that Uchiha may be plotting a rebellion. They were guarded by the ANBU Black Ops, and were made to live in a corner of the village. The Third Hokage opposed this treatment of the Uchiha, however, his advisors and Danzo refused to listen to him.

Realizing what was happening, the Uchiha was plotting an insurrection. Sasuke is shocked by this revelation. Madara continues. Acting on intelligence of this, Konoha planted a spy in the Uchiha clan. That spy was none other than Uchiha Itachi. It was then that Itachi's nightmare began.

My commentary:
We finally learn what Madara had against his own clan that he joined Uchiha Itachi in his order to wipe them out. An order which came from Konoha. It's complex, isn't it? And if Madara can be believed, he did not commandeer the Kyubi himself, but he instead feared it would attack Konoha, as it would be a pretext to wipe out his clan. It would seem that Madara is being inconsistent when he says that he wants to protect his clan, and then destroy it, but his only issue is with the clan members loyal to the Senju system of the Leaf Village. Also, we're learning that Itachi may not have been the monster we though he was.

A lot is being placed on Sasuke right now, and what we are hearing is blowing the ninja world wide open. I'm on the edge of my seat, I can hardly wait for the next issue, issue 400.

Four hundred? This manga has come a long way, hasn't it?

[Raichu]

Naruto number 400: Into the depths!
Note: Please read Naruto #400 before continuing!

Sasuke was reacting in disbelief that Itachi was a spy for the village, and his own clan was planning a coup. It turns everything upside-down, doesn't it? Tobi, or Uchiha Madara, continues the Uchiha clan's bizarre and dramatic tale to his captive Sasuke. Madara lent Sasuke assurance that it was all true.

To Sasuke's shock, the person behind the coup was Fugaku, Sasuke's father, and Sasuke joined the ANBU acting as his spy. Even then, Itachi was already sending information about the clan to the village. Sasuke asks why he would do this, and Madara answers that it was because Itachi bore witness to the 3rd Ninja World War as a child, witnessing people being killed in cold blood. Seeing this naturally caused Itachi to hate fighting, so he became a person devoted to keeping his village stable. It was the village that took advantage of this, assigning him the mission to wipe out the Uchiha clan. Madara notes that it must have been a difficult decision to make. Sasuke is speechless.

If Uchiha would have started a civil war, it would've shaken the foundations of the village and the entire Fire country, opening the door for other countries to invade, triggering a fourth Ninja World War. Madara asks Sasuke what he would have done, it the peace of the world was in his hands. Sasuke still had nothing to say (a lot to take in, I assume). Itachi saw that he had no alternative in preventing a war than to destroy his own clan.

It was about that time that Madara had the idea of stirring up a war himself when Itachi found him out, noticing his presence. They made an agreement, that in exchange for cooperation in wiping out the Uchiha clan, Madara would not make any moves against the village.

Sandaime Hokage wouldn't accept what was going on, and continued to insist that reconciliation with the Uchiha was the answer, but the plan to wipe out the Uchiha went forward. It was a flawless mission, but one small detail was left undone, and that was to kill his little brother.

Itachi plead with the Third to keep Sasuke safe from Danzou and the others, and before leaving, Itachi threatened Danzou, saying that if anything happens to Sasuke, he would share everything there is to know about the Leaf Village to every hostile nation. But this would remain a secret from Sasuke, to whom Itachi said "goodbye" in a different manner; he encouraged Sasuke to seek vengeance against him so he could be strong. He was, in fact, counting on Sasuke one day becoming strong enough to beat him, so he could pass a new power on to him. Hearing his, Sasuke decides that Tobi must be lying to him.

Commentary: How would you feel if you learned that the one person in the world you sought vengeance against, the person you spent your whole life hating and plotting to kill, and succeeding, was the one person in all the world who looked out for you and wanted the best for you? It would be enough to drive a person mad, and if the caption on the last page can be trusted, that just may be what happens. Sasuke is caught in the middle of a conflict that has been going on since decades before he was born. I've said this last issue, I can hardly wait to see what happens next.

[Blue Carbon]

Well, I have read every chapter of Naruto up to 419. I am waiting for 420. I am also going to keep watching the Anime too, but I was shocked to read that Jaraiya (spelling) died... I was really not expecting that... Also Naruto's sage mode is just pure win. And I found the battle with the 8-tales to be a little too short, so I am not surprised that he is still alive.

[Raichu]

I'm watching Pain's infiltration of the Leaf Village. I wouldn't be surprised if Naruto returned to see that everything is a wreck. This might not happen, because Madara seems to wanna destroy the place in his own way.

It looks like the mystery of Pain may soon be solved, so I'm going to make a guess. I think the real Pain is none other than Rikudou Sennin, the first modern ninja. To employ such a person for Akatsuki would illustrate Madara's resourcefulness. This may be far-fetched, but it is a guess. We'll see.

[Blue Carbon]

Well, 420 was released today, and it looks like a big battle in Konoha is brewing. It's going to be pretty cool =D

[Raichu]

Issue 420 opens with a two-page splash picture of all 9 jinchuriiki hosts, including the ones that we've previously never seen before. If you haven't read it yet, get to it. This pic is pretty cool.

[Blue Carbon]

Yeah that's was awesome. Where is the guy with the pipe or flute thing from? The Hidden Grass?

[Blue Carbon]

Okay, I am really annoyed by how they made Pain look... In the Anime he is a odd blue-grey color, one that resembles Itachi's partner. And in the Manga, he is white and had orange hair... They really messed him up...

[Raichu]

421: I'm open to the possibility of Danzou being a Madara plant. But if this were the case, why would he prevent the Nine Tails from returning to Konoha? What does he want? I won't stand for his treachery!

[Raichu]

Issue 422 ended too short. But it looks like Kakashi is close to finding out Pain's secret. I'm on the edge of my seat. Will Naruto have a home to return to?

[Raichu]

Remember in October when I said that Naruto may not have a home to return to? Did I call it, or what? I wouldn't worry too much about that, with the majority of the population surviving. It shouldn't be a problem for the village to rebuild.

But right now, we're in the middle of a dream match. Naruto is taking on the Akatsuki leader, and appears to be doing well with his new sage power. Right now, the only Pains that are left are the fat one and the God Complex Pain that we are familiar with. This match has gone on a while, and can still go either way. The hard part is waiting one week for the next one.

[Blue Carbon]

Heh, you were right. I can't wait for the next chapter.

[Raichu]

My commentary on Naruto 435:

When we left off, it looked like Naruto was in a bad spot. He was in the clutches of fat Pain, who was draining away his sage chakra. Turns out this was a mistake. Just because he was absorbing sage chakra, doesn't mean he can control it. In moments, he was a frog statue.

As Naruto escaped from fat Pain, the elder frogs prepared to use their genjutsu, but Pain used his Bansho Tenin technique to pull Grandpa Toad onto his sword. It appears he is slain. Pain then restrains Naruto by pinning both his hands to the ground with his blade. Pain looks ready to explain his intentions.

Meanwhile, Ino is joining up with Shikamaru's group, with Shizune's body in tow. As Katsuyu explained to Naruto, the Pains that he's fighting were merely puppets, bodies controlled by a nearby shinobi. It seems that Shikamaru's group has just figured Pain out.

If Naruto can defeat Pain, he'll have to fight the one pulling the strings from the shadows. But whoever he may be (perhaps Nagato?). If they do, he will have the Rinnegan, giving him access to every jutsu imaginable. If it's the Rikudou Sage, as I suspect, this could get ugly. In any case, he's going to be a tough opponent.

Now for the hardest part: Waiting a few days for the next one.