Cesar Milan

Hi All

I'm a big fan of the Dog Whisperer...never miss an episode.
Now, I know some 'professionals' don't like him or his methods...but I wonder if this is more to do with Jealousy?

His results are clearly quite amazing, and I think it is more about getting the owner sorted out, more than the Dog.....and he is clearly a very Charismatic individual.

But....have any fellow viewers noticed something?

Where are all the Border Collies????

Now.... is the lack of them due to

a) Border Collie owners are 'serious' Dog Owners? (we've all seen the stoopid Pink Poodles with attitude in L.A. with owners who are in need of Psychiatric Help, let alone their poor pets) so we are quite capable of doing it ourselves.

b) All Border Collies are well behaved and never have any issues whatsoever? (My Sophie kicks that theory into touch straight away...little so and so that she is!)

c) Border Collies are not popular in the USA? (they are very popular in fact)

d) A collie with issues is too hard to deal with?...hmmm not likely.


Any theories anyone?

one day he will be banned in this country. i cant wait til that day.

i'm certainly not jealous of an orange toothy little man that spouts outdated methods and philosophy that has long been debunked.

yes when it comes to diet and excercise i agree with him but thats where i draw the line. anyone in this day and age who think its ok to use prong collars, choke chains, electric shock collars (and dont say he doesnt because he does), pokes, kicks, alpha rolls and that god foresaken magic noise shouldnt be in dog training.

those poor pet dog owners who get suckered into his psycho babble are busy ruining their dogs without realising it - they are switching their dogs off to them by causing fear and confusion and when their dogs are fully shut down they stand back and wonder at the marvel of the 'dog whisperer'

oh yeah i'm jealous alright.

ps, i have seen 2 clips of him abusing 2 different BC's.

Each to their own, but why does he condone the use of such collars on his show?...where are the dissatisfied punters, whose Dogs he has permantantly Damaged?
Where are the masses of screwed up owners, sueing him?

If you put God on crappy Facebook, he would have an anti-god page spring up instantly

And personal insults about him does nothing to help your argument I'm afraid.

If you can back up the abuse of two BC's with Facts Gemma, or link to them, I'll be happy to have a look.

We have enough bad trainers in THIS country, who should be struck off before we talk about banning him (imho)

if you are happy to watch animal abuse on TV and be blinkered by the media machine that is cesar milan then good luck to you. i pity you for not being forward thinking enough to not see the abuse for yourself but i will not waste my time attempting to open your eyes for you.

for those who can see and think for themselves heres the first one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUeD4oxGLs...rom=PL&index=21

for collie'lover' lets start with the qoute 'i'm removing the tail from between his legs because this creates fear'

ummmmm no.

the dog is telling him he is going about it all the wrong way and a hands off approach will actually help this BC instead of force methods doing mothing more than teaching the BC to surpress his behaviour.

Agree with the above, don't like him, he has no idea about dog behaviour, uses cruel and abusive techniques and often does more harm than good.

Rather than babble on I'll just give you a link and you can choose to read it or not.

http://beyondcesarmillan.weebly.com/

Thanks for your pity... don't want it..but thanks anyway!!

So, do you always talk to people like they're a five yr old?....I can make up my own mind thanks...and I do so by studying the facts!...I see there are some links for me to examine, and I shall judge them on their merit.

I wasn't aware of any of this stuff you are talking about with Cesar Milan (well, slam my ignorance) but tbh, you sound like one of those demented PETA fanatics, who jump down someones throat, just because they have a different view on things.

If you had just been a little more polite, and non-aggressive in your approach, I would have taken what you said much more on board.

I may still end up agreeing with you, if I find that Cesar Milan is indeed what you say...but it won't be because of what you have said!

Collieluvver.

Have you seen the video where he has the shock collar on the black shep? It circles the reciever on the collar and the transmitter in his hand so you know it is there and with the way the dog keeps screaming and throwing itself about suddenly, you know he is putting it to good use. Funnily enough, he never mentioned in the episode that he was using a shock collar. The dog became so stressed during this episode that hit went for it's owner who was sitting on a chair and then tried to climb under the chair in complete terror.

Also, have you seen the one where he provokes the husky into attacking him and then he strings it up with it's choke chain so that it can't breathe and it eventually collapses on the ground due to lack of oxygen and he calls it submissive calm....I can't get my breathe...no pun intended.

I have seen both of these vids...I shall go find them.

As you have probably figured out, I do NOT like many of his methods. No doubt, there are some things he says and does which many more would agree with but his dominance theory beliefs, his use of choke chains, prong collars and shock collars, over-use of treadmills and flooding...even kicking the dogs. He lightly kicked the husky and made a noise at it to provoke it into attacking him.

He does not address the roots cause of these dogs problems. He only tries to inhibit the symptoms. This is about as much use as putting creams on a flea allergy without first getting rid of the fleas. He also does not teach the owners how to handle the dogs themselves so the dog might shut down and inhibit the behaviour when he is there but it would probably go into overdrive with the owners.

I would not let him anywhere near my dogs. These quick fixes you see in his shows are just edited material to make it look as though he has an unexplainable magic.


These other trainers, behaviourists, dog experts, are NOT jealous at all. They are concerned about such training techniques being used and the implications of using these training techniques.

Here are a few helpful links for you to read as to why Cesars dominance theory is very much flawed and can actually create more stress and aggression when applied to dog training.
http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/

http://www.drsophiayin.com/dominance.php

Ah yes...the podcast with the Huskie that bites him...hmm

Do you have any idea what happens to Dogs seen doing that in the UK?

They end up on death row, sentenced to be destroyed (if they're a Pitbull..they dont even need to do that!!!)

probably a much better way of sorting that sort of behaviour, would be to get those fantastic guys in that amazing programme Dog Borstal to sort that evil beast!...with a Bald head, an ex prison camp..and REALLY shiny boots on...they will cure all Ills!..hahahahahahahahaha

I am going to look into this a lot further, and see what I come up with...thanks for the Links

Seems both of the videos have been removed from youtube saying it was a copyright claim from national geographic...funnily enough, they don't try removing the more mild ones posted on there...only the ones they know evoke a lot of criticism against their money making so-called dog whisperer.

I'm open to anything..thanks Canis Lupis...It is obviously something that warrants further investigation

Yes, it is always best to remain open-minded. Please do delve into this issue and do your own research...don't just watch the shows and be taken in by them.

It's a pity that Cesar Milan doesn't show the same open-mindedness. He knows there are plenty of top trainers and behaviourists itching to expose him to proper scientific facts about dog behaviour etc...and teach him alternatives....but he just thinks he knows best...and he has no qualifications at all.

Any good trainer/behaviourist has to always be open-minded because they are always finding out new things and these new things will often put a spanner in the works. When I first started studying dog behaviour, it was all dominance theory and it was a big shake-up for me when it started to be discredited and I had to convert to the new way but did loads of my own reading and research. I suppose that has made me more prepared for any future needed conversions.

I haven't seen dog borstal...I've heard a few things but no specifics. I don't watch TV see.

Remember that as aggressive as some dogs are, they aren't evil like some humans you get. Aggression usually stems from fear and anxiety. They use it normally as a last resort to prevent situations they don't want or keep something they don't want to lose. If it works, and usually it does, they become more confident using it and no longer look frightened...but, underneath, the reason they are using the aggression is still fear/anxiety based. If you can alter the underlying mindset causing the aggression, the aggression itself should disappear as it is no longer required.

I can't help feeling that is exactly what Cesar Milan would say though.

Whilst I can see the science in the Dominance thing being outdated theory....the techniques he uses, and the things he says are very similar to what you have said.
Yes, I know his byword is the owner being the 'Pack Leader'...but surely a Dog Owner has to take a leadership role with a dog..exactly the same way as you would as a Parent?...you are issuing a set of instructions that you wish the Dog to obey!...well, what's the difference...you can use the Term 'Pack Leader' owner, Boss...whatever!..same thing surely?

Ok, if Nat Geo are cynical enough to only show edited highlights without the bits with him using these awful Training Collar things (which, he is against using, from his own accounts)...then that is a disgrace!

(I was being a little Sarcastic re:-evil beast btw)...wasn't directed at anyone in particular