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 Bitches Fighting
Rach3468
Posted: Nov 17 2011, 07:27 PM


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Can anyone advise, I have a 5 year old bitch who grumbles a lot at my other dogs (younger than her) we think its because our old bitch was fascinated with her for some reason and would follow her everywhere .(She is now at rainbow bridge)

Well when my younger bitch was about a year old she took acception to being grumbled at and started a fight. As you know when bitches fight they mean it and with great difficulty we separated them before they did serious harm.

This has now continued for 2 years, the younger was always fine with my other bitches but just seems to have a thing for Lily. the fights can just kick off and they have to be separated each time. If they are separated for any length of time you can almost guarantee a fight,

I'm not sure what to do, after 20 years of owning Border Collies i have never had a bitch problem although I have heard people say they have
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oldshep
Posted: Nov 21 2011, 12:32 PM


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I know that it is not fashionable in certain quarters to discuss or admit to the pack theory however, those that spend a lot of time around working dogs see it in action every day. It sounds (and I have always maintained that one can only make a very limited assessment on a Forum) that you may have an Alpha bitch intent on keeping the others under control. I see it all the time with a friend's pack. (NB - no intention whatsoever to get into a pack v non-pack argument!).

My suggestion, especially as you are clearly very highly experienced, would be to either see if you can gain some expert advice from reading or to approach a trainer who has real and I do stress real experience in these matters with BCs. Barbara Sykes book on dog aggression may be of help as may her website (Mainline Border Collies). Alternatively this may be a good source of help: http://www.groveshilldogwhisperers.co.uk/index.html as Sarah has dealt with some very, very difficult dogs and brought them through the other side.

As always, these are only suggestions for you to make of and take as you will. Best of luck as I am sure it is a very unsettling situation.



*sheep(
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Yoko
Posted: Mar 26 2012, 05:49 PM


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I sympathise with your problem - that does sound like a nightmare to live with:( I'm very interested in this post as I was going to create a new thread asking about BC bitches living together and then saw your post.

I currently have a 3 year old BC bitch (spayed) and am in the process of visiting BC rescues to look for a companion for her. I'm trying hard to find evidence as to whether there is a preferred pairing, i.e dog and bitch over 2 bitches, but I'm struggling to find anything that can scientifically state the best match. Therefore, I've kind of come to the conclusion that it must simply come down to individuals, but I'd be very interested to hear of anyone's experience in this - obviously yours isn't a good one, so I wonder if this is because of individual problems or gender....

I've discussed this with a couple of people recently, one of whom said that 2 bitches can sometimes live together happily for years and then out of the blue, decide they don't get on - and that is hard to reverse. Is this purely anecdotal do you think or is there a specific reasoning?

Will be watching the answers to your question with great interest, and although I can't advise, I wish you all the best with trying to overcome this :/
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oldshep
Posted: Mar 29 2012, 05:12 PM


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Yoko, I have two bitches one about 8 the other about 2. Mostly they ignore each other although the young one is a little feisty but the older one is a real Alpha female type and really does not care a jot. *sheep(
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Yoko
Posted: Apr 2 2012, 08:38 AM


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Thanks Oldshep, sounds like your two have a good relationship then and understand each other :) I'm still really interested in this thread and hope that you manage to improve the situation Rach - hows it going? :/ have you managed to find any information or advice ?

I added to my crew on Friday with a BC boy - not particularly that he was male, just that so many other aspects were right, but as I say, this is an interesting topic!
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Max and pack
Posted: Sep 8 2012, 09:55 PM


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Would be really interested to know how you are getting on? Have you seen any progress?

I don't know how relevant this will be as collies are of a very different mindset generally, but I have two terrier bitches who got on fine apart from the odd mild snapping match, usually over food/toy untill we got our rescue boy (8 months old) when the girls were 3 and 2 years old. Sally started attacking Meg, and she meant it :( Like you said when bitches go for it they go for it! Both have had their share of puncture wounds, though thankfully nothing more serious. For about 3 months we had to keep them separate and nearly rehomed Meg. But then they both came into season and started flirting/humping/playing with eachother (as they always do when in season!) and whilst we still have to be very careful they have been able to live together since then and have gone back to playing together and curling up to sleep together.

Our fight now only ever occur in two situations; when non houehold members are offering attention, ie jealousy (Sally is now muzzled when we stay with family) or when Meg is 'vulnerable' eg last week when she was knocked over by a speeding collie, or if anyone grabs her collar or pushes her, as if Sally is seeing weakness and taking the oportunity to 'take her out'. Not sure where this fits into 'pack theory' but I have heard it is common wolf behaviour? It means we have to be really careful how we handle Meg. We probably get one or two fights a month.

The fights still require separation, and cqn still give puncture wounds. But are definately less servere and need less 'cool down' time. When they started Meg had to be kept out of Sally's sight for hours, even a whole day. Whereas now it just takes minutes, put Sally in a down stay untill Meg is happy to go up to her (Meg is expert at reading Sal, we judge the situation by Meg's reaction to Sal)

I think our situation is only manageable because it is one sided, as in it is only Sally going for Meg, never the other way round and when we pull Sally off Meg gets herself away. With yours it sounds like the older bitch is provoking the younger by growling at her?

Like I said would love to know how you are getting on. I would never wish a situation like this on anyone but it is great to be able to bounce ideas around with others with experience.

As for the best match (bitch/bitch v bitch/dog) still not sure. We now have two of each and (apart from when they're fighting) the girls definately get on better with eachothr than they do with the boys. They play together, hunt together on walks, share kills and sleep snuggled up. Sally only ever pays attention to Billy when she's in season! The boys get on really well and play togther but I think they'd be the same with the girls if it was recipricated.

Blimey, sorry for the long post! I'll shut up now :)
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