Cheng Shih, Chinese pirate queen

I wish they had a tatoo for that as well.
I thought that Jacky had no choice but to go with Cheng Shih when the Lorelei Lee was captured, if that's what you mean.

I know that she had to go with Cheng Shih, it's just that I would have preferred it if Jacky was able to stay in the Lorelei Lee. I felt like the part with Cheng Shih were just to explain how she got the Lorelei back into her hands. The book was also only focused on Cheng Shih for a few chapters... I hated the part where Jacky was saying her goodbyes to Jaimy 'cause she thought she had to go with Cheng Shih the most.

Did Jacky have a lesbian experience with Shih? can someone explain this to me?

Since Jacky was a prisoner/slave, I tend to look at it as she was sexually abused, though I don't know to what degree. Jacky's said numerous times that she doesn't believe in death before dishonor (read: rape); she'll do what she has to do to try to survive a situation.

Jacky shares a bed with Shih whom, she agrees, is energetic ... which makes me think sleeping/chatting isn't the only activity going on there (Shih's husband looks at it as a harmless bit of sport on Shih's part). Cheng Shih also reminded her, 'sort of', of Mademoiselle Claudelle, who likes pretty girls and who really likes Jacky. A lot. :lol: When Jaimy asks what it means that Jacky is Shih's pet, there's the thought/line: "It means I get petted a lot, Jaimy." In Rapture of the Deep and The Wake of the Lorelei Lee, whenever Jacky refers to 'petting', it seems it's always of a sexual nature ("pet me, Jaimy").

While we've seen numerous sexually abusive male characters who have targeted Jacky, Cheng Shih is, I think, the first female character to do so. Surprisingly, none of them seem to leave much lasting trauma of this nature behind or, if they do, it's not mentioned. As many times as Jacky has been sexually assaulted, this has always puzzled me ... but, maybe, she's blocking it. *baffled shrug*

Thanks for clarifying it. Yah now that you explained it, it does seem like they shared a sexual experience. Maybe subconsiusly she likes the attention from both sexes. We all know how Jacky is with her "free and easy ways" :lol:

I'm not sure that I agree with that interpretation. For one thing, Cheng Shih was introduced as very reserved. Secondly, remember that Cheng Shih was a whore for a time, so why would she inflict the same shame or discomfort on another person? Also, I think that the "petting" was more like how someone might treat an exotic pet, instead of an object of sexual interest (like people might keep a monkey or leopard for show). Finally, I think that Jacky would have had some sort of an objection if it were sexual. She wouldn't have been able to trivialize the experience for Jaimy's peace of mind. Jacky has always been flighty and emotional, having nightmares about Sin Kay, Scroggs, and the other attacks that she has endured. I can't imagine that being sexually abused by Cheng Shih would be any different.

She commanded more than 400 ships...wow, that's really impressive!!

Ugh. Monkey?

Let's go with the second one. It allows us to picture Jacky in Leopard print, cat-ears & tail. Maybe even a collar. One with a jingle bell.

Yeah... totally rockin' the tiger-striped bikini Lum/Josie & the Pussycats style...

Abuse victim turning abuser happens all the time, though; that, to me, is no stretch at all. Heck, when Jacky asks for her freedom, she gets whipped and tattooed. In a society/culture where slavery exists, it's nothing to use slaves however one wants; Cheng Shih, by the standards of her own culture/society/ship, might have been very kind and, to her, it might have seemed lenient and extraordinarily generous. It might be a great 'honor', for some slaves, for the Master to have sexual contact with them; or the Master might just be under that assumption. I don't know - there's a lot, in this case, that's left unsaid.

I just creeped myself out. :lol: I'm picturing Cheng Shih taking a monkey/leopard to bed for an energetic round of 'sport'. No doubt the language instruction would be absent so words like 'love, kiss, touch, etc.' wouldn't be covered but possibilities for the rest ... "OWW! Bad monkey. No! OWW!"

Oh, golly. That's wrong. :lol:

I haven't made up my mind about this. First, surrounded by enemies, with nowhere to run, no more arrows, and no common language with her captor, what kind of objection could she realistically make? Go along as best you can or ... die? While Cheng Shih wasn't as vile and insane as Scroggs, I'm inclined to think Jacky had fewer options on the Divine Wind than she did on the Wolverine. (This is why Joannie [in MotGD] earned my extreme displeasure when she teased Jacky about what went on between Jacky and Cheng Shih with a poke and, "... you bad thing, you ..." Yes, Joannie, teasing a slave about how they're used or what they do to survive is hilarious good fun, I agree. Ugh.) ... hmmm ... tangent, there.

Second, I don't know ... the lack of choice is my big thing, that's primary. When she was with Claudelle - and did have options - Jacky made it clear that she wasn't interested in her; and she said that, when sleeping together, Claudelle was as good as her word about being good ... mostly. The tone, as I read it, was amusement and/or fondness; not a big deal and no threat, even if Claudelle copped a feel, or some such, at some point. Jacky's pretty casual about her own, and others', sexuality.

I just don't think Jacky had the same options, or could respond in the same way, in dealing with the two women. Whatever happened ... or didn't. :D

When talking to Jaimy, Jacky minimized her slavery, so why wouldn't she minimize what happened during her time as slave? I'm thinking of her question about the tattoo: "So that means she owns me, Brother?" His answer was yes in addition to the tattoo providing protection. When Jaimy asked if Jacky was her slave, Jacky said no, it means she has Shih's protection. In my opinion, she was very much minimizing it in saying no about the slavery and only acknowledging the protection aspect.

... Come to think of it, now that you mention it ... from Bloody Jack on, I think Jacky has had a habit of trivializing unpleasant or dangerous things when writing/talking to Jaimy.

Help me out, please, if you can. I don't recall Jacky having nightmares about that. The nightmares I can bring to mind are those where her life/safety was in danger from hanging, or dismemberment, or whatever. Even Nettles' appearance in a nightmare had him swinging a rope not the attempted rape. I think. Has she also had nightmares about the sexual assaults? (If anyone can answer this, I'd appreciate it. One thing that has bothered me is the apparent lack of impact repeated attempted rapes has had on this character. While it's happening, the fear and panic is well done but after the fact? When the girl is safe but still doesn't feel safe because, duh, it tends to stick with you? ... I can't think of a girl anywhere who seemed so unconcerned about it, afterward, as Jacky.)



Anyway. This is all so subjective, thank you for a different perspective.

It's my opinion that the experience between Cheng Shih and Jacky was similar to what happened between Mamselle and Jacky.

I think that when Jacky describes 'petting' she is referring to cuddling, petting hair, giving back rubs, stroking skin, etc. All of which can be construed as sexual or not sexual, depending on the circumstances and intentions of those involved. For example, getting a back rub is nice when it's from the same or opposite gender, but can be more of a sexual experience when it's from a member of the opposite gender.

When Jacky says she's been petted, she always describes it as pleasant, whether it's from a guy or a girl. Perhaps both encounters were on the edge of being 'sexual' depending on what your definition is.

There is also the consideration that the encounter could have been defined more as 'intimate' than sexual. I think that Mr. Meyer wrote in in such an obscure way to let people have their own opinions on what happened, just like he did in MBLH, when she has some sort of involvement with Jean-Claude.

I think the book is intentionally ambiguous about what did/didn't happen between Jacky and Cheng Shih. I guess that means each reader can fill in the details as s/he prefers. (So I agree with Anchor's last sentence.)

So this is similar to Jaimy/Clementine and Jacky/Jean-Paul. (Not to open up any old, OT cans of worms or anything ... )

I am pretty convinced that it was sexual in nature but limited to groping kissing maybe touching. Jacky has been known to trivialize romantic things as long as there not exactly sexual. For example in RotD she kisses at least two characters who were not jaimy so she may feel like nothing explicitly bad was done with Cheng Shih.

I grew up in the Philippines and I have heard lot of storied about Ching Shih. The idea that she commanded a fleet of 1800 ships and more than 80,000 pirates is a hoot. She never had more that a tiny fraction of that number even when you count every rowboat.
Having put her power in prospective I think that her greatest assist and ability was in being able to form loose collations of the Chinese and Malaysian pirates and there can be no denying he power. Some of the pirates under here nominal control attack communities in the Philippines and slaughtered everyone in sight. Jacky was luck not to get slaughtered from the start.

I found it very upsetting that Jacky preferred to stay with Ching Shih. I know that Ching Shih would never have permitted any of her sexual pets to leave.