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Posted: Jul 14 2011, 04:51 AM
Member No.: 1
Joined: 12-June 11
It's amazing to me how many Un-Biblical ideas are casually believed even by many Fundamentalist Christians simply because Society has conditioned us to believe it.
The idea of a War in Heaven sometime before Adam's fall is a Gap Theory connected false Doctrine mainly popularized by secular western fiction.
When I say it's a Pagan idea it's because various Pagan mythologies have myths of various wars between the gods (Sometimes newer gods overthrowing older ones) or of a god being cast out. Greek mythology as the Titanarchy, the Gigantarchy, overthrowing Ophion, the brief usurpation of Typhon, and the casting out of Hēphaistos. Egyptian mythology has Amon's war with Apep and Set overthrowing Osiris to latter be overthrown by Horus. Norse mythology has the war of the Vanir and the Aseir. And so on.
The Bible only ever discuses the Fall of Satan is Prophetic books, Isaiah 14:12, Ezekiel 28:13, and Revelation 12. Only one isolated verse appears to place it in the past, Luke 18:10 "And I beheld Satan as lighting fell from Heaven". But God often uses past tense language in reference to future events, and Yeshua is God The Son made flesh, he came from Outside time, he's seen all of History already play out. He know the beginning from the end and the end from the beginning.
Job demonstrates that Satan still has free access to Heaven, and he's still serving that function in The New Testament, hence why he's called the Accuser. The only difference now is that now believers have an Advocate in Yeshua. 1 John 2:1
The big problem with this false view to me is that it conflicts with the important fact that Adam's sin is the origin of Sin and Death. Roman 5:12, 1 Corinthians 15:21. Genesis 3 is the origin of Sin, it's not just the first Sin Adam or Eve committed, I believe it's the Serpent's first open act of rebellion against God as well. We don't need a Prequel Trilogy to explain how The Serpent became a sinner.
The Fallen Angels did not all fall at once. The first group to fall are the ones from Genesis 6, who are now imprisoned in the Abyss. Then after the Flood more began to fall. I suspect there may be some not fallen now who will fall before the end.
Satan is also still the "Archon (Prince or Ruler) of the World" (John 12:31, 14:30, 16:11) as well as the "God of this World" (2 Corinthians 4:4). Some think the John verses mean he ceases serving as that at the Crucifixion (Preterist and Amillennial thinking), but the Corinthians verse shows he still is, and Ephesians also shows his servants still rule the World behind the scenes. Yeshua did purchase the World with his Death and Resurrection, but he doesn't actually take it until the Millennium.
Isaiah 14 is a continuation of 13, it's still the same Prophecy. It affiliates Satan's final doom with the finale Doom of Babylon, which is yet future, (Revelation 17 and 18). But the exact timing I feel requires Revelation 12 to figure out.
Revelation 12 begins as a summery of all History, the Woman being Israel, the War in Heaven begins not only after The Man Child's birth (3 B.C.) but after the ascension (30 A.D.) and after the Woman/Israel has fled to her hiding place in the Wilderness (in Edom, Isaiah 63), which as we know from Matthew 24 is triggered by the Abomination of Desolation. When it says he caused a 3rd of the stars to fall from Heaven, I believe that's referring specifically to the Angels who fell in Genesis 6 who are now in Tartaros.
In other words it's the Middle of the Tribulation. Daniel 11 jumps from the Hellenistic age to the end times in verse 35. Verses 36 till the end of the chapter I believe outline The Little Horn's activities during the first half of The Tribulation, ending with setting the stage for his counterfeit Death and Resurrection. So when the first verse of Chapter 12 says '"And at that time shall Michael stand up" I believe that corresponds directly to Revelation 12:7.
Allot of people believe Satan will indwell in "The Antichrist", but I see no Biblical basis for that either. Many End Times Christian movies and books like Left Behind and Revelation/Tribulation, and The Omega Code virtually make The Devil and The Antichrist the exact same character. But in my view Revelation 13 and 16:13 clearly paint The Dragon (Satan), The Beast of the Sea (Antichrist) and Beast of the Earth (The False Prophet) as three distinct individuals, acting a sort of counterfeit Trinity, with the last leading the world to worship both of the other two. Revelation 19 and 20 give The Antichrist and The False Prophet a very separate fate from The Devil, their cast into the Lake of Fire after the Battle of Armageddon, their the first individuals ever sent there, Satan is then bound in the Abyss/Tartaros for 1000 years and then after sparking one last rebellion he's cast into the Lake of Fire.
Posted: Feb 20 2014, 10:32 PM
Member No.: 1
Joined: 12-June 11
I have decided to add a discussion on the Gap Theory in general, since it's become very tied to the matter of Satan's Fall.
The Hebrew phrase translated in Genesis 1:2 "without form, and void" (which in Hebrew uses the same words) simply means it was unformed and unfinished. In Genesis 1:1 God Created all Matter as well both time and Space, but in verses 3 on he refined and perfected the details.
Chuck Missler who I admire still likes to say the Gap Theory comes from Isaiah 45:18 "he created it not in vain". This is merely referring to when the 6 days are over however. When " God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good". To me that assessment would be absurd if Satan had already fallen, there had already been death.
Chuck also likes to claim that phrase is an expression of Judgment, but that's only base don latter usages in different context, he's forgetting the law of first mention here.
Jeremiah 4:23-26 is however the real lynchpin of the Gap Theory.
The word for 'man" used here is "Adam" so they take it as meaning Pre-Adamic, so there was a Pre-Adamic civilization. But all "there was no man" means here is these cities are now uninhabited because they've been judged and their populations are dead.
Those who want to see this as being about some Ancient Pre-Adamic cataclysm are ignoring the rest of the Prophecy, which mentions, Jerusalem and Judah and Ephraim and Dan. This is an End Times prophecy about the future Judgment upon our age. All the destructive imagery here is parallel to things said in Revelation.
Another issue is the use of the term "refill and replenish". We today are used to the prefix "re" mean it's doing it again, but it didn't always mean that in 1611. But more importantly that's not what the Hebrew says, the Hebrew phrase simply means to "fill and populate".
My objection to both Gap Theory and Extended Day Theory and any Old Earth model is not simply about anything in Genesis, it's primarily New Testament.
Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned"
I Corinthians 15:21 "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead."
Meaning as I said when discussing Satan's fall, nothing bad ever happened before Genesis 3.
On the subject of the Extended Day theory, there are also those who like to suggest using all kinds of technical facts about the relativity of Time, (like that time has been slowing down) to claim that all the supposed Old Earth evidence from Secular Science is in fact completely compatible with a literal interpretation of Genesis.
There may indeed be some good insights to learn from studying those issues. But what's important to keep in find is two things.
1. The claim made by secular science about history is different in more then just how much time passes, even the order things were created is different. The Big Bang Theory claims the Sun must've existed before The Earth. Also the development of Life on this Planet is incompatible, life didn't start in the ocean Biblically.
I personally get really annoyed when people making Extended Day Theory arguments go all "how could it be a 24 Hour Day if the Sun and Moon weren't there the first few days?". But even more annoyed when people who aren't even Christians say that just to mock Young Earth Creationists, because it betrays their own principles.
The Sun, Moon and Stars are only part of how we measure a Day, what a Day actually is is the Earth's rotation. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." I believe right on Day one The Planet Earth existed, was already a sphere and was already spinning. If anything I might accept that days were shorter originally as the Earth's rotation has been slowing.
Some of you might want to argue this just means the Earth as in the element, and not specifically our planet. But Hebrew had different words for Earth (so did Greek and Latin actually), the Earth element is Adamah, which Adam was made from. Genesis 1:1 uses 'erets.
2. Really derives from 1, and I'd already talked about it anyway, but it's worth repeating. Any interpretation of how to fit Genesis with Science that has anything human or animal die before Adam's Sin is heretical. Meaning if your going to believe that Dinosaurs went extinct long before Man came into existence, your view is unBibical.
To me all the supposed Evidence for Millions or Billions of years is all B.S. anyway, I honestly don't think I'd buy it even if I wasn't a believer. But addressing those things would be for another topic.